New Leica M6 Film Camera

[madNbad]

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14 minutes ago, jsrockit said:

If someone knows Leica enough to know they are valuable to steal, they are surely going to recognize the camera with or without the red dot.  

Hope they’re not disappointed when they find out it’s not a Fuji.

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[250swb]

34 minutes ago, madNbad said:

Now we have a mostly new film body

Well no we don’t have mostly new film body. In the original owners manual for the MP it shows an al la carte option for the MP to have a rewind crank and top plate instead of the rewind shaft. I don’t think this ever came into the real world, if it did it’s very rare. But Leica had an M6 type derivative camera called an MP in the works with new electronics, brass top plate rewind crank, way back in 2002. The only difference is the engraving.

Edited October 20, 2022 by 250swb

[Ouroboros]

 

4 hours ago, Datachrome said:

So the « new film camera » turns out to be nothing new. Anticlimactic and a bit sad IMO. But plenty will buy for sure. Oh well…

What is the reason for your disappointment? What were you expecting or hoping for in a reissued M6? 

[jukka]

5 minutes ago, jsrockit said:

If someone knows Leica enough to know they are valuable to steal, they are surely going to recognize the camera with or without the red dot.  

Yup, agreed. I’ve never bothered to mask the dot on my M7, not even around dodgy neighbourhoods. You shouldn’t carry around your expensive camera like a chump. Then again if someone is committed to getting it, they are likely to do so, and you should just let them, maintain physical health, and collect insurance. 

I like the industrial matte black - I guess it’s cool if it brasses - as well as the hinged plastic rewind lever and angled crank, both of which are comfortable and fast. 

So, the “new” M6 sounds great and it’s a good idea from Leica. Too bad there’s no A-mode, that’s a dealbreaker for me. 

[hdmesa]

4 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Well no we don’t have mostly new film body. In the original owners manual for the MP it shows an al la carte option for the MP to have a rewind crank and top plate instead of the rewind shaft. I don’t think this ever came into the real world, if it did it’s very rare. But Leica had an M6 type derivative camera called an MP in the works with new electronics, brass top plate rewind crank, way back in 2002. The only difference is the engraving.

Yes we do. More people not fully reading threads and reviews. New M6 is new internals per Jono.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Read a few posts up the link to what Jono said. It's not MP internals. It's an all new camera. They did this to avoid the supply constraints of the circuit boards and many internals that are now all insourced.

This new M6 and the variants based on it that may follow will have the longest serviceable meters of all Leica film cameras.

It would be interesting to understand what is new, and why it is important to the user …

Functionally, it doesn’t seem to offer anything that an MP doesn’t do already.  As a photographer, if it’s all more reliable, then that’s great.  But what I see is a camera which does exactly what an MP does, but with a plasticky bit on the end of the film advance, and angled rewind crank and dressed up in an M6 top deck.

I’m sure for those who like to acquire every variant of a Leica M camera, and for those new to film M cameras, it will be great.  But, frankly, I don’t see the point.  If they have supply chain issued with the circuitry for the MP, then just modify it.  I have considerable mistrust of Leica and electronics since the M9 debacle (you can add M6 meters & M8 LCDs to that list).  The words “Leica” and “supply chain” send a cold shiver down my spine.

Having had Leica modify my M-A, I remain blissfully happy.  

If this is really an upgrade to the MP, then why didn’t they just modify that camera?  All said an done, it’s a M with a mechanical shutter, rangefinder from the MP and the same functionality.

[Matlock]

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2 hours ago, Anbaric said:

I guess:

(1) The meter can still be serviced.

(2) No risk of zinc bubbles.

(3) Less risk of patch flare.

(4) You have money to burn!

I'd say it is a 'genuine' M6 despite the 'MP' innards. After all, the TTL is still an M6, and so are the variants with brass top plates like the M6J and the Titan, as well as the exotic special editions, etc. And what is an MP after all, if not a refined M6 with some retro furniture?

Whilst I agree with your general points I have to say (2) is very much over egged. I know that it does occur (rarely) but I have NEVER seen any example, other than photos on this forum. Leica made quite a point of the introduction of the zinc top plate for very good reasons at the time and the occurrences were few and far between on one or two early batches.

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, delta100 said:

Well for me, the MP is still a better camera. The M6 has a piece of plastic on the lever and the angled rewind knob that was always a problem i.e. breaking off. The red dot is a giveaway to anybody who may wish to steal your camera. The only thing I like on the M6 is the screw less pressure plate which Leica fitted for me ten years ago. I will be keeping my MP.

How many rewind knobs do you know of breaking off?

[250swb]

13 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Yes we do. More people not fully reading threads and reviews. New M6 is new internals per Jono.

New internals from the old M6

[jsrockit]

8 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

If this is really an upgrade to the MP, then why didn’t they just modify that camera?  All said an done, it’s a M with a mechanical shutter, rangefinder from the MP and the same functionality.

I think you are hung up on expecting a Leica M to offer something functionally new.  It generally does not happen too often with film Ms.  Why can't they offer the M6 and an MP?  Why would that bother you?  The M6 is a very popular camera on the used market and Leica knows it.  Some people might prefer the look of the M6 over the MP.  

Edited October 20, 2022 by jsrockit

[hdmesa]

5 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

It would be interesting to understand what is new, and why it is important to the user …

Functionally, it doesn’t seem to offer anything that an MP doesn’t do already.  As a photographer, if it’s all more reliable, then that’s great.  But what I see is a camera which does exactly what an MP does, but with a plasticky bit on the end of the film advance, and angled rewind crank and dressed up in an M6 top deck.

I’m sure for those who like to acquire every variant of a Leica M camera, and for those new to film M cameras, it will be great.  But, frankly, I don’t see the point.  If they have supply chain issued with the circuitry for the MP, then just modify it.  I have considerable mistrust of Leica and electronics since the M9 debacle (you can add M6 meters & M8 LCDs to that list).  The words “Leica” and “supply chain” send a cold shiver down my spine.

Having had Leica modify my M-A, I remain blissfully happy.  

If this is really an upgrade to the MP, then why didn’t they just modify that camera?  All said an done, it’s a M with a mechanical shutter, rangefinder from the MP and the same functionality.

If you read Jono's review and watch Hugh Brownstone's interview on the M6 out today, they both say the benefit is supply chain availability and future replacement availability of the circuit boards. Evidently the company that made the MP meter boards has been out of business for a while. I don't think we have anyone saying the parts themselves are improved, but if the guts are all-new, I'm not sure why they wouldn't be in some ways – just don't know yet.

[Huss]

2 hours ago, Crem said:

It's not really a MP. Confirmed by Jono it's a new camera. Lots of new parts. Different light meter circuit board, mechanicals, etc.  Details here: 

 

Is ‘as I understand it’ a definitive statement, or an assumption.  Because what I do not understand is which parts for the MP are now hard to get?  And why?  And if so, why are parts for the new M6 not hard to get?  Who is making those new M6 parts who could not make the MP parts?
 

It either sounds like a marketing ploy to make it seem like it is a new camera.  Or if it is a new camera, something that I would avoid for a few years to let others be the beta testers.

[hdmesa]

5 minutes ago, 250swb said:

New internals from the old M6

New in the sense that they are insourced and not relying on third parties that have delivering them sporadically. We don't yet know if in the process of insourcing they made improvements. 

[Elan_Andar]

So it’s true, the return of the iconic M6. An ode to classic film photography. But I love my M2. Its mechanical process of taking pictures, true moments of consideration and enjoyment. I probably won’t replace it, that doesn’t feel right. But hey, you never know… 

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[hdmesa]

3 minutes ago, Huss said:

Is ‘as I understand it’ a definitive statement, or an assumption.  Because what I do not understand is which parts for the MP are now hard to get?  And why?  And if so, why are parts for the new M6 not hard to get?  Who is making those new M6 parts who could not make the MP parts?
 

It either sounds like a marketing ploy to make it seem like it is a new camera.  Or if it is a new camera, something that I would avoid for a few years to let others be the beta testers.

Jono is pretty definitive, but you should ask him directly in his Steel Rim review thread where he references the M6. Also watch Hugh Brownstone's interview on the M6 out today. No one's trying to trick current users into thinking there is some new magic sauce in the new M6

Edited October 20, 2022 by hdmesa

[jukka]

4 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

But, frankly, I don’t see the point. […]If this is really an upgrade to the MP, then why didn’t they just modify that camera? 

It really is called marketing. And for Leica this is all about nostalgia and what is in and what is out.

The new nostalgia “so hot right now“ appears to be plasticky and angled levers. If this is hard for mp owners, maybe do some self-reflection regarding what was it in the mp that made it so desirable.  

[Huss]

1 minute ago, hdmesa said:

Jono is pretty definitive, but you should ask him directly in his Steel Rim review thread where he references the M6. Also watch Hugh Brownstone's interview on the M6 out today. No one's trying to trick current users into thinking there is some new magic sauce in the new M6

It just doesn't make any sense to me that the supplier of the all new M6 parts couldn’t just make parts for the MP.

[madNbad]

7 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Whilst I agree with your general points I have to say (2) is very much over egged. I know that it does occur (rarely) but I have NEVER seen any example, other than photos on this forum. Leica made quite a point of the introduction of the zinc top plate for very good reasons at the time and the occurrences were few and far between on one or two early batches.

Zinc oxidation happens more often on the TTL cameras. I had an early production TTL that developed a sprinkling of bubbles across the top plate. It was my only camera at the time, always stored properly and I was quite surprised to see them.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[250swb]

2 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

New in the sense that they are insourced and not relying on third parties that have delivering them sporadically. We don't yet know if in the process of insourcing they made improvements. 

How many parts for the MP are still hard to get given it’s still on sale relative to dealer supply issues? The internals of the ‘new’ M6 are not the same as the old M6, thankfully, so they are ‘brand new’ by definition. But this is based on the MP and was first hinted at in 2002.

[hdmesa]

1 minute ago, Huss said:

It just doesn't make any sense to me that the supplier of the all new M6 parts couldn’t just make parts for the MP.

Leica is the supplier of their own parts for this. They are cutting out the flakey third parties. For the circuit boards, it sounds like they are using more reliable suppliers (according to Hugh Brownstone's video) or making it themselves in Portugal (per Jono's speculation in the Steel Rim review).