What is the best (most reliable) performing lightweight reasonably fast 50 mm M-mount lens?

[lct]

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If parentheses are meant to enclose additional information that clarifies or illustrates a point, the OP wanted to know which is the best (in the sense of most reliable) performing lightweight reasonably fast 50 mm M-mount lens. English is not my mother tongue (language) though. I added 'language' between parentheses as an additional information that clarifies possibly my improper use of the word 'tongue' in the Shakespeare's language . 

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[roelandinho]

16 hours ago, Rick said:

"What is the best (most reliable) performing lightweight reasonably fast 50 mm M-mount lens?"

In your title post, I am not sure what the "most reliable performing" lens would be... or what that means.  I own five Leica 50mm lenses and they are all "reliable."  So I am not sure which one I would recommend.   

Given your "conditions" listed in the body of your post, you then ask, Which one has the most reliable performance?  So, I am not sure how to help you because, I am not sure what you mean by reliable in this context.

I'd like to help... What do you mean by reliable?  

 

I agree this needed further explanation which I gave in a later post.
 

In short I am looking for a 50 mm lens that is small and light (ideally < 200 g and 250 g at the most, fast (f/2 or larger aperture), has zero focus shift, has no field curvature, does not flare and never loses contrast. Something like the Leica 50 APO but with less weight and better flare resistance.

[Rick]

lct,

Ah, I believe you are probably right.  I looked up reliable and it reads, good in quality or performance.  Although, not the standard usage, it is a word that fits his question quite well.

So, I would recommend the Leica 50 APO and I find it compact and not heavy at all.  Excellent quality and performance.  The flare problems have been fixed.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Rick

[lct]

13 minutes ago, roelandinho said:

I agree this needed further explanation which I gave in a later post.
In short I am looking for a 50 mm lens that is small and light (ideally < 200 g and 250 g at the most, fast (f/2 or larger aperture), has zero focus shift, has no field curvature, does not flare and never loses contrast. Something like the Leica 50 APO but with less weight and better flare resistance.

This lens does not exist i'm afraid and probably will never do. Even the 50/2 apo has some flare and the best lenses have some field curvature anyway. Now never say never so who knows... .

[01af]

I'd suggest to relax the 'max. aperture at least f/2' requirement and then get a Summarit-M 50 mm 1.2.5 or 1:2.4. They are reasonably fast (one full stop faster than f/3.5), have a very nice transition from sharpness to background blur, are pretty much flare-resistant, and are light-weight and even shorter than an extended Elmar 50 mm.

They are much more desirable than those flare-prone Summicrons .... but always fail at everybody's f/2 limit.

Edited November 4, 2022 by 01af

[Jean-Michel]

There is no such thing as a heavy weight M lens, except perhaps for the 135 Elmarit. And there is no such thing as a bad 50 mm M lens, As for flare, use flair when photographing.

[a.noctilux]

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44 minutes ago, 01af said:

I'd suggest to relax the 'max. aperture at least f/2' requirement and then get a Summarit-M 50 mm 1.2.5 or 1:2.4. They are reasonably fast (one full stop faster than f/3.5), have a very nice transition from sharpness to background blur, are pretty much flare-resistant, and are light-weight and even shorter than an extended Elmar 50 mm.

They are much more desirable than those flare-prone Summicrons .... but always fail at everybody's f/2 limit.

Of course.

See my post #32

Anyway, ideal lens does NOT exist.

Compromises at best.

[roelandinho]

12 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

There is no such thing as a heavy weight M lens, except perhaps for the 135 Elmarit. And there is no such thing as a bad 50 mm M lens, As for flare, use flair when photographing.

All relative of course. M lenses are lightweight compared to huge full-frame autofocus lenses. But I know that I much prefer handling the 35 mm Summicron v4 at 150 g than the brass asph version at about 320 g. Even the difference of the 50 mm f/3.5 Heliar (200 g) compared to the ZM C-Sonnar (250 g) is noticeable to me. The Heliar feels nicer to carry and use. 

[roelandinho]

12 hours ago, 01af said:

I'd suggest to relax the 'max. aperture at least f/2' requirement and then get a Summarit-M 50 mm 1.2.5 or 1:2.4. They are reasonably fast (one full stop faster than f/3.5), have a very nice transition from sharpness to background blur, are pretty much flare-resistant, and are light-weight and even shorter than an extended Elmar 50 mm.

They are much more desirable than those flare-prone Summicrons .... but always fail at everybody's f/2 limit.

Thank you. Maybe I should consider the Summarits. Supposedly there’s no optical difference  between the 2.5 and the 2.4. Is there much difference in ergonomics or build quality between the versions? The 2.5 version is slightly heavier and has E39 filter size compared to E46 for the 2.4 version, correct?

[01af]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb roelandinho:

The 2.5 version is slightly heavier and has E39 filter size compared to E46 for the 2.4 version, correct?

That's right. And yes, the speed difference is purely nominal, not real. The actual speed for both most likely is somewhere between 2.4 and 2.5. For practical intents and purposes, the only criterion is whether you prefer E39 or E46 for the filter size—i. o. w what filter size your other lenses are.

[lct]

Just beware that the Summarit 50/2.5 can do some nasty flare when shooting in some circumstances like 10:00 AM when the sun is outside of the fame in front of me. No problem when using it in LV mode though since the flare is visible in the EVF or on the LCD supposedly. Don't ask me about the Summarit 50/2.4 i have no experience with.

Edited November 5, 2022 by lct

[01af]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb lct:

Just beware that the Summarit 50/2.5 can do some nasty flare when shooting in some circumstances ...

No lens is entirely flare-free. Yet, the Summarit-M 50 mm is less flare-prone than most other 50 mm lenses.

[lct]

The Summarit 50/2.5 has a similar flare as the current Summicron's when the sun stands inside of the frame (link). When the sun stands outside of the frame, the Summarit does less flare generally but when it does it can be somewhat disturbing (link).

Edited November 5, 2022 by lct

[BradS]

21 hours ago, roelandinho said:

...In short I am looking for a 50 mm lens that is small and light (ideally < 200 g and 250 g at the most, fast (f/2 or larger aperture), has zero focus shift, has no field curvature, does not flare and never loses contrast. Something like the Leica 50 APO but with less weight and better flare resistance.

 

This describes the Zeiss 50mm f/2 Planar ZM.

[Chimichurri]

Even though it doesn’t say Planar I know just from looking at it I took this picture with the Planar. 

Just look at a lot of samples and see if you like what you see. 

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It had too much contrast and the sharpness made the skin look bad. The colors were too punchy for me. 

However , in B&W I loved it  

It made the pictures look like film especially if I cranked the ISO a bit. I guess the sharpness goes well with the noise. 

Consider I’m looking at all this on the M10R. Maybe not an issue on the M10 or on film.

An improvement on that was the APO-Lanthar. It’s just not small and light. 

A great alternative would be if Voigtlander made a 50f2 Ultron already. I don’t know why they won’t make one.

There was a 50f2.4 for sale the other day. They say this lens is great. It sold quick. They say it’s sort of no BS, sharp, no character, just a good ole small Sharp 50. And also that it focuses really quick. Something about the focus throw that is really good. This is the feedback I hear. I’ve never used it. 
 

 

All considered, hard to beat the Summicron. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Chimichurri

[Alberti]

Maybe an idea to make such a no-BS lens again, but then with a proper focus ramp, not a sloped one. This is not the era anymore of the CLE design logic. I mean marketing logic; there might be a demand for a no frills product.

There is no secret market division I hope . . . 

 

[Ouroboros]

On 8/31/2022 at 3:58 PM, lct said:

Focus shift is less of a problem on film so i would say Sonnar 50/1.5 if you don't dislike its focus knob and 43mm filters. Otherwise Summicron 50/2 v4 for reasons stated above or Planar 50/2 if you shoot often into the light.

The ZM 50mm f1.5 c-sonnar takes 46mm filters, not 43mm.

The focus 'bump' is actually quite useful especially when refocusing on different objects/subjects and recomposing with your eye at the viewfinder in a fluid and changing environment such as events and weddings.

Some people like to make an issue of the 1/3rd stop aperture ring indents of ZM lenses,  in practice it's a non-issue. My feeling is a that significant proportion of those who can't resist making this 'point' about 1/3rd aperture stops probably do not own or have never used a ZM lens. 

That said, I do not have a ZM 50mm c-sonnar f1.5 as my only 50mm.  My experience and my reason for having it is because it is at it's best as a head and shoulders and 3/4 length portrait lens to be used at f1.5 or f2.  I rarely stop it down from either of the two widest aperture settings.  It's a lens for artistic interpretation, at which it is very good, but is not the best choice for landscape or architectural photography if/when precision and clarity is important. 

Summicron's propensity to flare is overstated on the internet (I have both of these lenses, the c-sonnar and a v5 summicron safari edition) and flare is easily avoided or embraced when you know the lens.  

To the OP: don't close your mind to the 50mm elmar-m f2.8.  It's every bit as good as a v5 summicron and even faster to focus, I have one and for travel and hill-walking I actually prefer it to the summicron because of the speed of focus and the fact it's slightly lighter in weight and less bulky when collapsed. 

It's also significantly cheaper than a standard summicron and only available used, but I'd rather have the 50mm elmar-m f2.8 than any faster ZM 50mm planar or Voigtlander 50mm, apo or not. 

At f2.8 you won't even notice that it's 1 stop slower than your minimum criteria of f2, especially if you're using a digital M.

Leica should reissue the 50mm elmar-m f2.8, preferably with a focus tab, it is one of their best 50mm lenses, firmly in the spirit of the original Leica M and Barnack ethos. 

  

Edited November 7, 2022 by Ouroboros

[Huss]

I sold off all my Zeiss ZM lenses apart from the 35 1.4 Distagon due to the infamous wobble.  My Zm Sonnar 50 1.5 had it, and my 50 Planar started with it.  This site explains it and pretty much it is inevitable due to how they build them.  It seems they changed the build with the Distagon as there have been no reports of that wobbling.

 

https://www.leicalensesfornormalpeople.com/2021/03/07/the-zeiss-wobble-on-zeiss-zm-lenses-explained/

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ouroboros]

The ZM wobble is well known and well documented.  I expect it may happen eventually with my c-sonnar but I like the lens too much to not have it.  It’s a unique lens and the wobble can be rectified.

[Alberti]

Maybe an idea to make such a no-BS lens again like the Summitar-M.  But then with a proper focus ramp. Why?
From looking at pictures it looks as if it has a sloped cam. That has always prevented me from buying it. Just the thought.

But this is not the era anymore of the CLE design logic. I mean marketing logic; it was said the offer of the Leica CLe was made such that it would not cannibalize.

there might be a demand for a no frills product.

There is no secret market division I hope . . . where Wetzlar leaves this open.