What is the best (most reliable) performing lightweight reasonably fast 50 mm M-mount lens?

[roelandinho]

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Hi all, 

I am looking for your input on what is the “best” performing 50 mm M-mount lens given certain restrictions (see below). I currently use the 50 mm f/3.5 Heliar and would like a faster lens. I am shooting color negative film and want a sharp, reliable lens to maximize the rather limited resolution potential 35mm film. 
 

The lens I am looking for *must* satisfy all of the following conditions: 

- max aperture: at least f/2

- weight: no more than 250 g

- good flare resistance is important (I don’t want to waste my film)

- the lens should be native M-mount, so no adapters should be necessary

I am currently looking at the Zeiss planar and the newest Voigtlander Nokton. Are there other lenses I should consider? Which one has the most reliable performance? 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience. 

[elmars]

Apo-Summicron?

But the Nokton is very good for a much lower price.

[pippy]

'79 - '94 (v4) Summicron. 195g and with optics which are considered to be so good they are still in use today in the current non-APO version.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/50mm-f2-m.htm

Philip.

[a.noctilux]

Hello,

Not the best, but these lenses tick most of your criterias,

NOT the best of course, some flare can occur, just give them time to convince you,

I mean Summicron-M from II ((Rigid) to IV (or V):

this is my first and favorite(from Wiki)

or one of those (can be a bit heavy though)

if you can find one at left 😉

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

 

[roelandinho]

1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

The lens that meets all your criteria except the weight (100g more) is the Voigtlander 50mm f2 APO-Lanthar. The most reliable, flare free and sharp 50mm under 1K$.

Thank you. I know about the APO-Lanthar, and if that lens wasn’t so large it would be an easy pick. At this size however, I’m afraid I wouldn’t enjoy carrying and using it. The weight restriction of 250 g is also meant to limit lens size. 

[roelandinho]

8 minutes ago, elmars said:

Apo-Summicron?

But the Nokton is very good for a much lower price.

The APO-Summicron would be an easy pick if it was lighter. I know from experience that I don’t enjoy carrying a lens of 300 g. About 250 g is the limit for enjoyment. Even lighter is much preferable. 

[jimmielx]

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The Zeiss Planar is easy to recommend. I’ve had this lens for man years and like it a lot. 

I did have the Voigtlander 50mm Nokton II for a while, but I had the SC version which certainly does flare. From what I’ve read the MC would not flare. Also be aware that the CV does have pretty extreme vignette. I didn’t keep it because I think the MC was probably the version for me, but also I found the vignette too strong. 

[Guest]

Have a look at the 2 Zeiss 50mm ZM lenses. 

f/2 https://www.zeiss.com/consumer-products/int/photography/zm/planar-250-zm.html  @ £650 

f/1.5 https://www.zeiss.com/consumer-products/int/photography/zm/c-sonnar-1550-zm.html @ £750

I have the 28mm Biogon f/2.8, which is an amazing piece of kit, so I’d expect similar, if not better performance for the 50’s  

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by OThomas

[roelandinho]

32 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

You did not mention size in your criteria... I know exactly what you want tho, a modern, fast calculation and design but the size and weight of Summicron 40/2 at about 125-150g... There is a gaping niche still waiting to be filled in that segment of the M lens market... I have personally asked Peter Karbe to redo that lens... he was just smiling.

I didn’t mention size because the weight restriction already excludes the lenses that are too large for me (e.g. the APO-Lanthar and the Summilux Asph). 
 

And yes, I wish Leica returned to making small and light lenses with high (relative) performance. The lens you describe would be perfect. 

[roelandinho]

49 minutes ago, pippy said:

'79 - '94 (v4) Summicron. 195g and with optics which are considered to be so good they are still in use today in the current non-APO version.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/50mm-f2-m.htm

Philip.

Thank you for the suggestion. How does this lens compare to the Zeiss Planar? I have read they are comparable in resolution but the Zeiss has better coatings leading to better flare resistance (and possibly more light transmission) at similar aperture. But this assessment could be based on only one sample so I’m looking for more opinions on this…

[wda]

I am surprised no one has suggested the 50 mm f/2.8 Elmarit. The supreme compact lightweight excellent performing Leica lens. As I have mentioned before, a few years ago a professional photographer used this lens exclusively for paid wedding photography, and wrote about it in an LFI article. Crave for more speed, and up shoots cost, size, weight and unreliabilty. Simple. But buy from a reputable Leica dealer. Register your interest and see what ensues.

[roelandinho]

34 minutes ago, jimmielx said:

The Zeiss Planar is easy to recommend. I’ve had this lens for man years and like it a lot. 

I did have the Voigtlander 50mm Nokton II for a while, but I had the SC version which certainly does flare. From what I’ve read the MC would not flare. Also be aware that the CV does have pretty extreme vignette. I didn’t keep it because I think the MC was probably the version for me, but also I found the vignette too strong. 

Thank you. I have read about the vignetting of the Nokton. Can you say how both lenses perform at f/2? Is the vignetting of the Nokton still problematic at that aperture? How do they compare in terms of image quality? 

[pippy]

4 minutes ago, wda said:

I am surprised no one has suggested the 50 mm f/2.8 Elmarit...

Because of the very first criterium which a prospective lens must fulfil as mentioned in the OP?

"Max aperture: at least f/2."

Philip.

[roelandinho]

Just now, pippy said:

Because of the very first criterium which a prospective lens must fulfil as mentioned in the OP?

"Max aperture: at least f/2."

Philip.

Indeed, I already have an excellent slow 50 mm. 

[roelandinho]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello,

Not the best, but these lenses tick most of your criterias,

NOT the best of course, some flare can occur, just give them time to convince you,

I mean Summicron-M from II ((Rigid) to IV (or V):

this is my first and favorite(from Wiki)

or one of those (can be a bit heavy though)

if you can find one at left 😉

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

 

Thank you. I am wondering how the Summicrons compare to the Zeiss Planar and the newest Nokton. Do they have nicer image quality?

[lebanese blonde]

Hi,

maybe this link is useful for you - i think this is the best comparison of 50mm Leica lenses:

https://www.47-degree.com/focus-shift/leica-m-50mm-lens-comparison-part-1

I had the Planar on my M6 several years ago but i didn't use it that much. It`s a very nicely built lens with a flawless image quality but maybe this was the cause for me not to use it that much.

Now i've got the SUmmicron v4 (79 - '94 as mentioned above) and i am very happy. It`s great on my M6 and M240. I bought it used with a fresh CLA from Leica 6 months ago with the matching hood for 1100€. It`s very sharp but still has a lot of character in a positive way. 

 

Edit: for a short time i tested the Nokton 50mm 1.5 II. I liked the image quality and the look, vignetting is pretty strong on that lens. It doesn't have a focus tab but is very small and compact.

Edited August 31, 2022 by lebanese blonde

[pippy]

10 minutes ago, roelandinho said:

...How does this lens (Summicron v4) compare to the Zeiss Planar? I have read they are comparable in resolution but the Zeiss has better coatings leading to better flare resistance...

In terms of IQ they seem to be about the same. Some reviews prefer one over the other but any differences seem to be so slight as to be insignificant.

My strong preference for either of the Summicrons over the Zeiss is to do with what I require from a lens for my style of shooting but I realise that others will have very different criteria. FWIW here are a few of the things - in order of importance - which shaped my own choice;

(1) The Planar has 1/3-stop aperture indents. In practice this feature really would drive me absolutely crazy.

(2) In comparison to the Summicron the Planar has noticeable barrel distortion. Much of what I shoot requires a lens to perform in as rectilinear a fashion as possible in order that any cropping to correct such distortion is kept to the barest minimum.

(3) The Planar has a 43mm filter thread. The Summicron takes Leica's 'regular' 39mm filters. I do use filters often both for Colour- and B'n'W work and, as such, already have a fairly extensive number of these in 39mm thread and it happens that the majority of my M lenses share the 39mm thread-size. Had I bought the Planar I would have needed to carry two sets of filters to use when out shooting. Doesn't sound much, I know, but it would just be one extra complication I don't need.

Those are the main reasons behind my thinking. In terms of the Summicrons my preference for the v4 over the v5 is primarily down to ergonomics. I prefer the clip-on hood to the slide-out style; there is less finder blockage with the v4 and I like the focus tab. On the plus side for the v5 it is, of course, still available to buy new whereas any v4 will be at least 28 years old and some are now well over 40.

Philip.

[Robert Blanko]

As Leica‘s 50 APO is unfortunately too heavy for your contest, I propose Zeiss‘ 50 ZM Sonnar, offering a max aperture of 1.5 at 250 g.

 

Stopped down it is sharp and contrasty. At 1.5 you may obtain some „character“ which transforms into smoother Bokeh when further stopping down to about 1.7 or 2.0. Thus, depending on the aperture setting, it offers various characters for various purposes.

[jimmielx]

3 hours ago, roelandinho said:

Thank you. I have read about the vignetting of the Nokton. Can you say how both lenses perform at f/2? Is the vignetting of the Nokton still problematic at that aperture? How do they compare in terms of image quality? 

The planar performs well at all apertures in my experience.

The Nokton’s vignette at f/2 is still very apparent. In my experience it was several stops down before the vignette went away. 

Other than that image quality is good on both. I did do a little shoot out between the two before I let the Nokton go and found sharpness very similar. Maybe a hair better on the Nokton.

I definitely don’t want to knock the Nokton. A lovely lens, nice and small. I think if I’d got the MC I’d have kept it and worked with the vignette. But I couldn’t live with the rendering of the SC in some cases. I can imagine getting the Nokton MC one day.

I don’t have experience of the Zeiss Sonnar, but it would be worth researching the focus shift that lens is know you exhibit before going that route - it might not be an issue on film. I have been thinking about trying that lens some time.  

All the Zeiss lenses have 1/3rd stop aperture clicks. If that’s going to be annoying for you then don’t go Zeiss.

Some folks don’t like the 43mm filter thread size. I’ve had a whole kit of excellent lenses with this filter size - Zeiss Biogon and C-Biogon 35mm, Planar 50mm and Tele Tessar 85mm, as well as the Nokton II 50mm and CV Nokton Classic 35mm 1.4. The same bayonet mount hood fits on all those lenses (bar the 85mm) too, so whether the 43mm is a problem or not depends on what else you’ve got.

As an aside when I sold the Nokton I replaced it with a Zeiss 35mm Distagon. Crikey that is an amazing lens, the rendering of it is beautiful - really sharp and detailed yet somehow smooth at the same time. I have yet to take it off my camera!

Edited August 31, 2022 by jimmielx
revised my impression of Nokton vignette

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Hallo,

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[lct]

Focus shift is less of a problem on film so i would say Sonnar 50/1.5 if you don't dislike its focus knob and 43mm filters. Otherwise Summicron 50/2 v4 for reasons stated above or Planar 50/2 if you shoot often into the light.