The two-body problem

[a.noctilux]

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If you ask here, it's a lost cause 😉.

Each choice IS valid 🤞.

Each choice IS validated here.

Edited August 20, 2022 by a.noctilux

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[Herr Barnack]

If it were me, I'd go with

Quote

Option 3: Sell the M2 as well, and use the lump sum to buy an MP (or M-A).

That, or option 3a:  Keep the M2 and add an MP or M-A to your kit. 

College is overrated, shooting with M cameras is not. 😄

Edited August 20, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[Gobert]

This is (are)(a)very, very complicated dilemma(s).

[ktmrider2]

I have been using Leica's since 1974 and have found myself in a similar situation several times in the last 50 years of having a great simple setup (1 camera and a couple lenses), getting more Leica stuff and suddenly finding I have too much gear.  The photography kit went from elegant (small light kit) to what do I want to take and what can I leave at home. Inevitably I would sell a couple lenses and bodies and start over but slowly going from a simple kit back to too much equipment.  I have done it four or five times in fifty years and last fall I sold a digital Leica, two film bodies and three lenses.

Since you have decided to stay with film, upgrading or changing film bodies is up to you.  Personally, I think the M2 has the best viewfinder of any Leica ever made.  Leica got something right about the M2.  If you have not already done so, go over to rangefinder forum and check out the M2 thread under Tom Abrahamsson.  He knew his cameras and loved the M2.  Be prepared to spend hours reading the M2 thread.  A friend of mine is a fairly famous National Geographic photographer and his kit for after the nuclear war is two M2's with 35 and 90 lenses and a ton of TriX.  

And I also happen to believe the 35f2.8 C Biogon from Zeiss may be the best 35mm made today!  It lives on my film M and is 50% of my travel kit, the other being a 90f2.8.  Sometimes I will throw in a fifty because the CLASSIC photojournalist kit was 35/50/90 and I was a working photojournalist for a short time.   The whole .72 magnification viewfinder works pretty well for a 28 and there are lots of 135f2.8 Elmarits with goggles which can be had for cheap (compared to normal Leica lens prices).  And I have never owned a 75mm so the M2 covers all the normal Leica lens focal lengths.

Does the M2 need anything (CLA, new cover etc)?  Can you live without a meter?  MP and MA are just new versions of the M6 and M2 as for as I can tell at inflated prices.  Do you need new Leica glass?  I can see getting something faster than the C Biogon for a second 35 but not sure if new Leica glass is worth the money when Zeiss and Voightlander have such great lenses but only you can answer if Leica lenses are worth the money to you.

If I were in your shoes, I think I would make sure my M2 is good to go, perhaps get something faster than f2.8 (probably not Leica) and spend some money for more travel and bank the rest.  It is great to be in such a position.  Personally, I am wrestling with what gear combo for a four to six month motorcycle trip through Central and South America.  I see advantages to both film (Leica) and digital (Fuji).  Although the digital (Fuji with 35/90) is packed, I am tempted to repack with just film.  Well, I have two whole days to decide.

Have fun deciding and know that there probably isn't a really wrong decision! 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by ktmrider2

[ktmrider2]

And after writing the above, I have decided on a Leica film body with 35 C Biogon and 90 Elmarit and a Fuji X100F so I have the best of both worlds (at least with a 35 FOV).  It all fits in a small Billingham Hadley Pro with room left for batteries, film and a incident meter.  Next decision is stopping at the Canal or going to Tierra del Fuego.  

I turn 70 in December.  My partner wants to know what I want for my birthday.

Edited August 20, 2022 by ktmrider2

[JoshuaR]

Thanks *very* much to everyone who’s contributed to this thread—all of your responses have been very helpful. I’m still not entirely sure what I’m going to do, but you’ve all given me a lot to think about, and helped me get a little perspective.

It’s absolutely true that the money from my recent sale seems to be “burning a hole in my pocket.” It shouldn’t be, and I’m going to take my time in deciding how to spend it (or not). I think it will either go into new gear or into the college fund, not into travel. I mainly shoot my everyday life, and I’m also a journalist (a writer, not a photographer); I’m lucky enough to have a job that often sends me to write about interesting people in interesting places. So subject matter comes to me on its own!

A major reason I’ve been considering buying a second M body is redundancy in case of repairs / CLA. But I don’t see many folks mentioning that, and the idea of picking up a Nikon SLR (or other affordable camera) if I need a temporary replacement for my M is a good one that just hadn’t occurred to me, for whatever reason. If I take the redundancy question off the table, then the main reason to have two bodies is flexibility, in terms of lenses and especially film stocks. But with flexibility comes complexity. I’ll have to mull that one over. When I think about my past history with gear, I find that I’m a lot like @ktmrider2—I’m always building up kits that are more complex than I want, and then simplifying. This time I should probably keep it simple. 35 / 50 seems to work really well for me, on a single camera body.

I’m not *really* that bothered by the engraving on the top plate of my M2. The only thing I truly don’t like is the problem with the 50mm framelines, which I can solve by jamming a little piece of paper under the preview lever. It’s not a seamless solution, but it works fine, and the fact remains that this M2 is the most enjoyable camera I’ve ever used. I seem to be doing fine without a built-in meter—and I like the feeling that I’m getting steadily better at reading light. (A lot of what’s attracted me to the analog M route is the idea of working on skills over the long term and maybe eventually mastering them.) So all that suggests keeping the M2, or maybe moving to an M-A—the black chrome M-A really appeals to me.

I’ll definitely check out that big M2 thread on Rangefinder Forum. 

In my original post, I said that I’d be unlikely to pick up a digital M. I’ve never tried one. And now it occurs to me that I have a bit of an opportunity, since I can turn my Q2 sale into a trade-in, and have an M10 delivered, and try it out at home for a few days and then send it back if I don’t like it. I’m 95% sure that I don’t want a digital camera any longer, but by trying an M10 I’d also get to find out what I think about an M with a newer viewfinder—and an M with metering in the viewfinder. So that might help me think about the MP / M-A / M2 decision, in various ways. That could be useful.

The wisest course, almost surely, will be to simply put the money aside, and then to keep shooting with my current M2 kit for the rest of the year. At that point I can really ask myself where I stand and what I need. Maybe it’ll be obvious that two bodies would be helpful, or perhaps I’ll just still be very happy with my M2. Or maybe it’ll be time to send the M2 in for a CLA, and at that point I’ll just buy an M-A. Or maybe I’ll decide that I want a digital M for low light. Who knows! What my gut is telling me today is that I’ll eventualy want to shift my gear just a bit, moving from the M2 to the MP or M-A and from the Pentax 67ii to the Mamiya 6 MF, which I suspect would fit me better and be more fun. That feels like a “final” kit to me, and more in tune with my goals. But the right thing for now is just to keep on with what I have.

Many thanks again for all your advice. Here’s an M2 photograph of mine that I like—my son on a race-car ride at the fair. It was a tough shot, since the car was moving! I love these M cameras.

 

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Edited August 21, 2022 by JoshuaRothman

[ktmrider2]

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Depth of field and pre-focusing are your friends  when trying to shoot action with a rangefinder.  But it can be done and has been done by lots and lots of photographers before auto focus which started appearing in cameras in the 1980's if memory serves.

Edited August 21, 2022 by ktmrider2

[grahamc]

3 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

And after writing the above, I have decided on a Leica film body with 35 C Biogon and 90 Elmarit and a Fuji X100F so I have the best of both worlds (at least with a 35 FOV).  It all fits in a small Billingham Hadley Pro with room left for batteries, film and a incident meter.  Next decision is stopping at the Canal or going to Tierra del Fuego.  

I turn 70 in December.  My partner wants to know what I want for my birthday.

Great decision and great trip - enjoy ! 

[grahamc]

58 minutes ago, JoshuaRothman said:

Thanks *very* much to everyone who’s contributed to this thread—all of your responses have been very helpful. I’m still not entirely sure what I’m going to do, but you’ve all given me a lot to think about, and helped me get a little perspective.

It’s absolutely true that the money from my recent sale seems to be “burning a hole in my pocket.” It shouldn’t be, and I’m going to take my time in deciding how to spend it (or not). I think it will either go into new gear or into the college fund, not into travel. I mainly shoot my everyday life, and I’m also a journalist (a writer, not a photographer); I’m lucky enough to have a job that often sends me to write about interesting people in interesting places. So subject matter comes to me on its own!

A major reason I’ve been considering buying a second M body is redundancy in case of repairs / CLA. But I don’t see many folks mentioning that, and the idea of picking up a Nikon SLR (or other affordable camera) if I need a temporary replacement for my M is a good one that just hadn’t occurred to me, for whatever reason. If I take the redundancy question off the table, then the main reason to have two bodies is flexibility, in terms of lenses and especially film stocks. But with flexibility comes complexity. I’ll have to mull that one over. When I think about my past history with gear, I find that I’m a lot like @ktmrider2—I’m always building up kits that are more complex than I want, and then simplifying. This time I should probably keep it simple. 35 / 50 seems to work really well for me, on a single camera body.

I’m not *really* that bothered by the engraving on the top plate of my M2. The only thing I truly don’t like is the problem with the 50mm framelines, which I can solve by jamming a little piece of paper under the preview lever. It’s not a seamless solution, but it works fine, and the fact remains that this M2 is the most enjoyable camera I’ve ever used. I seem to be doing fine without a built-in meter—and I like the feeling that I’m getting steadily better at reading light. (A lot of what’s attracted me to the analog M route is the idea of working on skills over the long term and maybe eventually mastering them.) So all that suggests keeping the M2, or maybe moving to an M-A—the black chrome M-A really appeals to me.

I’ll definitely check out that big M2 thread on Rangefinder Forum. 

In my original post, I said that I’d be unlikely to pick up a digital M. I’ve never tried one. And now it occurs to me that I have a bit of an opportunity, since I can turn my Q2 sale into a trade-in, and have an M10 delivered, and try it out at home for a few days and then send it back if I don’t like it. I’m 95% sure that I don’t want a digital camera any longer, but by trying an M10 I’d also get to find out what I think about an M with a newer viewfinder—and an M with metering in the viewfinder. So that might help me think about the MP / M-A / M2 decision, in various ways. That could be useful.

The wisest course, almost surely, will be to simply put the money aside, and then to keep shooting with my current M2 kit for the rest of the year. At that point I can really ask myself where I stand and what I need. Maybe it’ll be obvious that two bodies would be helpful, or perhaps I’ll just still be very happy with my M2. Or maybe it’ll be time to send the M2 in for a CLA, and at that point I’ll just buy an M-A. Or maybe I’ll decide that I want a digital M for low light. Who knows! What my gut is telling me today is that I’ll eventualy want to shift my gear just a bit, moving from the M2 to the MP or M-A and from the Pentax 67ii to the Mamiya 6 MF, which I suspect would fit me better and be more fun. That feels like a “final” kit to me, and more in tune with my goals. But the right thing for now is just to keep on with what I have.

Many thanks again for all your advice. Here’s an M2 photograph of mine that I like—my son on a race-car ride at the fair. It was a tough shot, since the car was moving! I love these M cameras.

 

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Great shot and glad you are moving through your decision 

Just one input from personal experience - be careful of trying these Leica's which "you can always send back after a few days" .  My experience is they are all very nice and extremely difficult to send back !   Maybe not a problem but worth mentioning    I snookered myself a couple of times that way although of course we can always sell them once we figure out which one . 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by grahamc

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

Thanks *very* much to everyone who’s contributed to this thread—all of your responses have been very helpful. I’m still not entirely sure what I’m going to do, but you’ve all given me a lot to think about, and helped me get a little perspective.

It’s absolutely true that the money from my recent sale seems to be “burning a hole in my pocket.” It shouldn’t be, and I’m going to take my time in deciding how to spend it (or not). I think it will either go into new gear or into the college fund, not into travel. I mainly shoot my everyday life, and I’m also a journalist (a writer, not a photographer); I’m lucky enough to have a job that often sends me to write about interesting people in interesting places. So subject matter comes to me on its own!

A major reason I’ve been considering buying a second M body is redundancy in case of repairs / CLA. But I don’t see many folks mentioning that, and the idea of picking up a Nikon SLR (or other affordable camera) if I need a temporary replacement for my M is a good one that just hadn’t occurred to me, for whatever reason. If I take the redundancy question off the table, then the main reason to have two bodies is flexibility, in terms of lenses and especially film stocks. But with flexibility comes complexity. I’ll have to mull that one over. When I think about my past history with gear, I find that I’m a lot like @ktmrider2—I’m always building up kits that are more complex than I want, and then simplifying. This time I should probably keep it simple. 35 / 50 seems to work really well for me, on a single camera body.

I’m not *really* that bothered by the engraving on the top plate of my M2. The only thing I truly don’t like is the problem with the 50mm framelines, which I can solve by jamming a little piece of paper under the preview lever. It’s not a seamless solution, but it works fine, and the fact remains that this M2 is the most enjoyable camera I’ve ever used. I seem to be doing fine without a built-in meter—and I like the feeling that I’m getting steadily better at reading light. (A lot of what’s attracted me to the analog M route is the idea of working on skills over the long term and maybe eventually mastering them.) So all that suggests keeping the M2, or maybe moving to an M-A—the black chrome M-A really appeals to me.

I’ll definitely check out that big M2 thread on Rangefinder Forum. 

In my original post, I said that I’d be unlikely to pick up a digital M. I’ve never tried one. And now it occurs to me that I have a bit of an opportunity, since I can turn my Q2 sale into a trade-in, and have an M10 delivered, and try it out at home for a few days and then send it back if I don’t like it. I’m 95% sure that I don’t want a digital camera any longer, but by trying an M10 I’d also get to find out what I think about an M with a newer viewfinder—and an M with metering in the viewfinder. So that might help me think about the MP / M-A / M2 decision, in various ways. That could be useful.

The wisest course, almost surely, will be to simply put the money aside, and then to keep shooting with my current M2 kit for the rest of the year. At that point I can really ask myself where I stand and what I need. Maybe it’ll be obvious that two bodies would be helpful, or perhaps I’ll just still be very happy with my M2. Or maybe it’ll be time to send the M2 in for a CLA, and at that point I’ll just buy an M-A. Or maybe I’ll decide that I want a digital M for low light. Who knows! What my gut is telling me today is that I’ll eventualy want to shift my gear just a bit, moving from the M2 to the MP or M-A and from the Pentax 67ii to the Mamiya 6 MF, which I suspect would fit me better and be more fun. That feels like a “final” kit to me, and more in tune with my goals. But the right thing for now is just to keep on with what I have.

Many thanks again for all your advice. Here’s an M2 photograph of mine that I like—my son on a race-car ride at the fair. It was a tough shot, since the car was moving! I love these M cameras.

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Good luck!

I don't get the idea of moving to digital for low light, though. Even f/1.4 can be enough for most low light situations with ISO 800 film. TMAX 3200 will let you shoot f/4 in lamp light. Of course low light might be a great excuse (er, I mean "reason") to put that money toward a Noct  

[Jeff S]

You might also consider renting a digital M to satisfy curiosity.  Easier to send it back. 

Jeff

[kivis]

get an M-A😃

[andrew01]

The correct number of cameras to own is N+1, where N is the number of cameras you currently own.

 

[ktmrider2]

I don't know if the correct number of cameras is N+1 unless you are much more stable than I am.  I think I have five or six cameras (three film and three digital).  I am leaving for five or six months on a motorcycle trip so room is limited.  I have repacked and juggled cameras at least four times since I wrote about the Leica film body, two lenses and the X100F.  Well, I have made my partner and friends nuts as I talk about the correct mix of gear.

I am back to the M4 with 35/90 and an X100F tucked into the bag.  We leave for the airport in two hours so perhaps this is the final mix.  Having more cameras would make me even crazier, I think!

[otto.f]

On 8/21/2022 at 4:24 AM, JoshuaRothman said:

The wisest course, almost surely, will be to simply put the money aside, and then to keep shooting with my current M2 kit

Exactly. Wait until you run into something, these are mostly best purchases. There is no need to decide anything at the moment. Not having a Q2 is in itself creating a lot of space to concentrate on what you chose for. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by otto.f

[qqphot]

I have multiples because I use them a lot and service and maintenance now is so glacially slow that I want to have another camera to use for the half a year i'll be without any camera I send out for repair.   I end up almost forgetting I own them until I hear back months later that they're being sent back.

[Ouroboros]

Looking at the OP’s options and taking into account his commitment to 35mm & mf film , I would personally be a little more radical in revising the gear.

Unless there is any emotional attachment or similar reason for keeping them, I’d also sell  both the M2 and the Pentax 67 and pool the proceeds with the money from the sale of the Q2 and the GRiii.

I’d use the money buy a new Leica MP or M-A as my 35mm camera of choice and a Hasselblad 501cm or 503cw with a couple of lenses to fulfil the  mf requirement.

A couple of reasons why and based on my personal experience:

a) A new Leica M  (hopefully) isn’t likely to need a cla or repair for probably  2-3 decades with normal use, by which time it will have become a very personal heirloom camera for the OP 
b) As nice as the Pentax 67 is, they are complicated for repairers to work on.  Hasselblad V series are not, and being completely clockwork, a Hasselblad V series will just keep on giving and those Zeiss lenses are simply excellent.

There you go;  a new Leica M and a nice classic Hasselblad V series  outfit for a committed film photographer to photograph his family and his travels for life! 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[DoubleE]

Up until a few months ago I was very happy with my single M body (M3).  Then an M2 came up at a great price, couldn't pass it up.  I was going to sell one of the bodies when I figured out which was my favorite.  But these days, both bodies have Tri-X loaded.  I keep a 50mm on the M3 and a 35mm on the M2.  I'm finding it super convenient to have the 2 bodies, whether for 2  different lenses, or 2 different film stocks or both.  Since the older M cameras just keep going up in price, no reason not to enjoy them while they appreciate.  I've seen a few of your photos posted here on the forum (very nice!) and from those images, my guess is you'd also find it convenient to have instant access to two different focal lengths.  Lastly, my personal preference is for the older fully manual Wetzlar made bodies.  They're lovely to handle and operate, parts continue to be available, and they are a solid investment. 

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[JoshuaR]

Thanks everyone for continuing to weigh in on this! My status update is that I asked MPB to send me an M10, and I'm shooting it around the house for a couple of days (I have a 14-day return window). I'm really glad I did this. Here's what I've found (not universal judgments, just my experiences):

1. I like having a second body around that's just ready to go.
2. I like the clearer glass of the M10 viewfinder.
3. I *don't* like having a meter in the viewfinder. I thought I'd enjoy it, but I think I prefer setting up my metering outside the VF, with a meter or just by eye, and then having a clear window on the world. (Shooting in aperture priority, I don't like having the shutter speed displayed, either.)
4. I *don't* like the nested frame lines. I prefer the M2's unobstructed view.
5. On each day I've used the M10, I've enjoyed snapping away without limit—but what this has meant in practice is lots of pictures of my houseplants, some elevator-mirror selfies, and random subway graffiti.
6. I miss winding on and the rhythm of processing film.
7. I don't like the temptation to chimp.
8. The digital pictures I've taken with my Zeiss lenses, especially the 50 Sonnar, are beautiful.
9. The M10 is a really nice digital camera.

I'm almost certainly going to send it back. Using it has made me appreciate the viewfinder in the M2 quite a bit. I'm now thinking that my dream setup, which I can now afford, might be close to @DoubleE's: an M2 (with Zeiss 35 Biogon) and M3 (with Zeiss 50 Sonnar), one loaded with HP5 pushed to 1600 (for shooting indoors, etc.), the other loaded with color film. And it's quite possible that I'm just happy with what I have!

(On the medium-format front, thank you @Ouroboros for your suggestion of the Hasselblad system! I'm a bit torn about it. The Petnax 67ii system I have now came to me as a gift from a cousin, so I'm taking my time in deciding if I really want to sell it and trade. One thing I've found is that I really, really like rangefinder focusing—I like the confidence it gives me about focus. So the Mamiya 6 system appeals to me quite a bit.)

One meta-reflection: there really is no substitute for simply having a camera in your possession and trying it out!

Edited August 25, 2022 by JoshuaRothman

[a.noctilux]

If you don't need digital M, just stay happy with what you have and use film.

👌