The two-body problem

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

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My own rule of thumb is three cameras minimum.  Always take two when traveling, because once I had a camera break on a trip.  To be reasonably certain two are available for traveling, you need at least three in the house, because once I had a camera not become available for a trip (stuck with the repair tech).  So that's why I have ... four M2's -- ha, ha, that's photographer's math.  One for each hand and one for each foot, I suppose.

Keep the M2 if you like it.  Lots of us believe it's the best mechanical M for the 35mm focal length.  You probably know this already, but the frame lines changed a bit for M's after the M4-2 (shrunk a little to make room for the 28mm lines).  For the distances I typically shoot at, the 35mm tramline on the M2, M4, M5 are typically more accurate.  In fact, in your shoes, I'd just get a second M2.

To the extent you just want to try something different, just go ahead and get it.  Creative types get bored easy, and new/different camera/lens can spice things up.  The Leica journey is one of different user experiences, and you can't tell if something will work for you until you get it into your hands.  Over the decades I've used virtually every film M out there, before settling on the M2.  No substitute for trial and error.  Get it, use it, and if it doesn't work out, sell it.  Leicas are generally overpriced, in everything, but they do hold their value on the secondary market.

The Biogon and Sonnar are great lenses.  Not sure Leica optics will offer anything better except for a little more speed at the wider angle.  I only shoot 35mm focal length for rangefinders, but I have a bunch of them, most of them character type lenses, but we're all different in this area.  

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[Edwin Ho]

On 8/21/2022 at 5:13 AM, BartS said:

I should keep the M2 (and give it a CLA) for the 35mm  Biogon and maybe buy a M3 as second body for the 50mm Sonnar so you can quickly shoot without changing lenses. I don't think upgrading your lenses will make any difference, with both lenses you can make outstanding pictures.

I own an M2 (having sold my non-TTL M6 a few years ago). I like the idea of having dedicated lenses for M2 and M3.

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[W07tek]

I just wanted to write in to say both your attached pictures are wonderful personal images and strongly suggest to me you don’t need any new kit!

Having said that, I would strongly suggest trying a Mamiya 6 if the opportunity comes along - collapsible lens, beautifully sharp contrasty lenses in summer light, rangefinder focusing. I hardly ever take my hasselblad out / I struggle not to take the mamiya on holiday. 

My favourite M is my M4-P, but for the reasons you gave for your M2. It’s beat-up, I don’t need to be precious or self-conscious about it, and the simple meterless viewfinder wins. I have a black paint (aftermarket) M3 but am far too careful with it to take any good pictures. 
 

 

 

 

[JoshuaRothman]

On 9/24/2022 at 1:43 PM, W07tek said:

I just wanted to write in to say both your attached pictures are wonderful personal images and strongly suggest to me you don’t need any new kit!

Having said that, I would strongly suggest trying a Mamiya 6 if the opportunity comes along - collapsible lens, beautifully sharp contrasty lenses in summer light, rangefinder focusing. I hardly ever take my hasselblad out / I struggle not to take the mamiya on holiday. 

My favourite M is my M4-P, but for the reasons you gave for your M2. It’s beat-up, I don’t need to be precious or self-conscious about it, and the simple meterless viewfinder wins. I have a black paint (aftermarket) M3 but am far too careful with it to take any good pictures. 

Thanks for your kind words, they're much appreciated!

It's been awhile since I started this thread. Since then, I've come close to buying lots of different cameras to complement my M2, and have also thought about just sticking with the M2 full stop. But I've finally made a decision and just bought an M4-P with a 28mm lens. That will give me two Ms and 28mm, 35mm, and 50mm focal lengths.

My plan is that, this winter, I'm going to use one camera with pushed HP5 and the other with slower / color film as the mood strikes me. I'm thinking that the M2 will be my daytime camera and the M4-P will be my nighttime camera. I might get a flash for the M4-P as well. My hope is that this will give me all I need for the near future.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

[Ouroboros]

2 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

Thanks for your kind words, they're much appreciated!

It's been awhile since I started this thread. Since then, I've come close to buying lots of different cameras to complement my M2, and have also thought about just sticking with the M2 full stop. But I've finally made a decision and just bought an M4-P with a 28mm lens. That will give me two Ms and 28mm, 35mm, and 50mm focal lengths.

My plan is that, this winter, I'm going to use one camera with pushed HP5 and the other with slower / color film as the mood strikes me. I'm thinking that the M2 will be my daytime camera and the M4-P will be my nighttime camera. I might get a flash for the M4-P as well. My hope is that this will give me all I need for the near future.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Come back in a couple of years time for more advice again!  

[shirubadanieru]

I currently have an M3 with the lux 50 v2 & the 35mm 8e w/ goggles. Thinking of keeping this one body only or buy another body for each of the lens. Especially when the M3 will need a CLA it sucks to have to wait 2 or 3 months or so with no camera.

[105012]

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4 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I currently have an M3 with the lux 50 v2 & the 35mm 8e w/ goggles. Thinking of keeping this one body only or buy another body for each of the lens. Especially when the M3 will need a CLA it sucks to have to wait 2 or 3 months or so with no camera.

3 M3's is about the right number... although more won't hurt you (but maybe the wallet)...

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[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, 105012 said:

3 M3's is about the right number... although more won't hurt you (but maybe the wallet)...

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ahah nice, although I think one of those should be olive paint to complete the collection  Are two of them DS and one SS?

Mine is the transitional SS (DS winding mechanism but with a single stroke & buddha ears)

[105012]

7 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

ahah nice, although I think one of those should be olive paint to complete the collection  Are two of them DS and one SS?

Mine is the transitional SS (DS winding mechanism but with a single stroke & buddha ears)

Olive would be nice... two transitional SS and one late SS.

[matted]

On 8/25/2022 at 10:02 AM, JoshuaRothman said:

Thanks everyone for continuing to weigh in on this! My status update is that I asked MPB to send me an M10, and I'm shooting it around the house for a couple of days (I have a 14-day return window). I'm really glad I did this. Here's what I've found (not universal judgments, just my experiences):

--snip--

   7.  I don't like the temptation to chimp.

 

--snip--

I know this is only one of your issues and you've already sent the M10 back, but just thought I would weigh in with how I use my M9 for similar reasons. I ordered an Arte Di Mano case for my M9 with a button-on screen cover which basically covers up everything except for the power switch that makes the M9 handle differently from my M4 (film advance/rewind aside of course). This cover goes a long way in reducing the temptation to chimp, and allows me to basically treat the M9 like a variable-ISO film camera. Having to partially unbutton the cover to change ISO or select a lens profile is sort of annoying, but easily forgiven with how "analog like" it has made the shooting experience for me.

 

Congrats on your M4P/28mm lens decision! Which 28mm did you select? 

Edited September 27, 2022 by matted

[Fotoklaus]

Am 26.9.2022 um 20:36 schrieb JoshuaRothman:

Thanks for your kind words, they're much appreciated!

It's been awhile since I started this thread. Since then, I've come close to buying lots of different cameras to complement my M2, and have also thought about just sticking with the M2 full stop. But I've finally made a decision and just bought an M4-P with a 28mm lens. That will give me two Ms and 28mm, 35mm, and 50mm focal lengths.

My plan is that, this winter, I'm going to use one camera with pushed HP5 and the other with slower / color film as the mood strikes me. I'm thinking that the M2 will be my daytime camera and the M4-P will be my nighttime camera. I might get a flash for the M4-P as well. My hope is that this will give me all I need for the near future.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Good decision. And i would save some money and give the M2 an overhaul. It is the perfect camera for 35 mm lenses and built in the golden brass Era.

Then you´re good for decades.

[JoshuaRothman]

On 9/27/2022 at 2:43 PM, matted said:

Congrats on your M4P/28mm lens decision! Which 28mm did you select? 

I got the Voigtlander 28mm Ultron version 2!

[matted]

1 hour ago, JoshuaRothman said:

I got the Voigtlander 28mm Ultron version 2!

Excellent choice. I picked up one earlier this year. I don’t often bring it because I usually have my Q2 with me, but it’s a stellar performer and nice and compact. 

[raizans]

Thinking long term here:

I would sell the M2 and buy two Zeiss Ikon ZM bodies.

Forget about Leicas for about five years, save up some money.

Then sell the Zeiss Ikons and buy an MP and M-A. 😉

[otto.f]

18 minutes ago, raizans said:

Thinking long term here:

I would sell the M2 and buy two Zeiss Ikon ZM bodies.

Forget about Leicas for about five years, save up some money.

Then sell the Zeiss Ikons and buy an MP and M-A. 😉

I bought my current M4 a few years ago for 600€ in excellent state, I could sell it now for almost 3 times more. Moneywise it’s never smart to sell M’s and then wait to buy them after all.

Edited September 29, 2022 by otto.f

[jakontil]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:01 AM, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

My own rule of thumb is three cameras minimum.  Always take two when traveling, because once I had a camera break on a trip.  To be reasonably certain two are available for traveling, you need at least three in the house, because once I had a camera not become available for a trip (stuck with the repair tech).  So that's why I have ... four M2's -- ha, ha, that's photographer's math.  One for each hand and one for each foot, I suppose.

Keep the M2 if you like it.  Lots of us believe it's the best mechanical M for the 35mm focal length.  You probably know this already, but the frame lines changed a bit for M's after the M4-2 (shrunk a little to make room for the 28mm lines).  For the distances I typically shoot at, the 35mm tramline on the M2, M4, M5 are typically more accurate.  In fact, in your shoes, I'd just get a second M2.

To the extent you just want to try something different, just go ahead and get it.  Creative types get bored easy, and new/different camera/lens can spice things up.  The Leica journey is one of different user experiences, and you can't tell if something will work for you until you get it into your hands.  Over the decades I've used virtually every film M out there, before settling on the M2.  No substitute for trial and error.  Get it, use it, and if it doesn't work out, sell it.  Leicas are generally overpriced, in everything, but they do hold their value on the secondary market.

The Biogon and Sonnar are great lenses.  Not sure Leica optics will offer anything better except for a little more speed at the wider angle.  I only shoot 35mm focal length for rangefinders, but I have a bunch of them, most of them character type lenses, but we're all different in this area.  

 

Speaking about the frameline in M2, would a 28mm lens frameable at all? Like probably it takes the whole of OVF? Or still a guesstimate game?  

[matted]

4 hours ago, jakontil said:

Speaking about the frameline in M2, would a 28mm lens frameable at all? Like probably it takes the whole of OVF? Or still a guesstimate game?  

There's a bit of guestimation going on as there is no frameline, but I've never had a problem just using "the whole viewfinder" as my frameline for 28 on my M4, which I believe is very similar to M2.

[ktmrider2]

Pick up any M which has the 28mm frame lines and you will see how close the frame lines are to taking up the whole viewfinder field.  For all practical matters, the full viewfinder of the .72 magnification finder is a 28 field of view.  With the exception of the M3, every film M uses the .72 magnification pioneered by the M2.  Now, there were special M6's and some later models with either the .58 or .85 magnification but these are rare compared the the .72.

Bottom line:  using the full frame of any .72 finder works great for a 28 mm lens.  The only thing you don't have is the parallax correction.

[jakontil]

9 hours ago, matted said:

There's a bit of guestimation going on as there is no frameline, but I've never had a problem just using "the whole viewfinder" as my frameline for 28 on my M4, which I believe is very similar to M2.

 

5 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

Pick up any M which has the 28mm frame lines and you will see how close the frame lines are to taking up the whole viewfinder field.  For all practical matters, the full viewfinder of the .72 magnification finder is a 28 field of view.  With the exception of the M3, every film M uses the .72 magnification pioneered by the M2.  Now, there were special M6's and some later models with either the .58 or .85 magnification but these are rare compared the the .72.

Bottom line:  using the full frame of any .72 finder works great for a 28 mm lens.  The only thing you don't have is the parallax correction.

Thank you, im thinking of taking only the M2, and a 28 summaron

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[Huss]

On 9/28/2022 at 10:32 PM, raizans said:

Thinking long term here:

I would sell the M2 and buy two Zeiss Ikon ZM bodies.

Forget about Leicas for about five years, save up some money.

Then sell the Zeiss Ikons and buy an MP and M-A. 😉

The Zeiss Ikons now are more expensive than an M2.  I had a Ikon Zm but sold it as I much preferred Ms, but I wanted to find out for myself if I’d like it.