Panasonic CL? Or APS-c S5?

[nicci78]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

11 hours ago, Le Chef said:

You’re making assumptions, still not offering facts to support your original premise.

You’ll see in one year. 
My assumption is the most logical one. It’ll make absolutely no sense for Panasonic to develop an APS-C camera. Hence also no sense for L2 technology.

I am betting on a new jointly developed Leica SL3 and Lumix S2. One last attempt to save L-mount by cutting costs. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Rick in CO]

15 hours ago, jdlaing said:

What does micro four thirds have to do with an L mount alliance?

Nothing.  Panasonic already has an established line of full-frame L-mount cameras.

The announcement was about new high end cameras for the enthusiast/professionals.  

Imagine a Q-similar body with 4/3rds sensor and interchangeable lenses.

[lct]

2 hours ago, Rick in CO said:

Imagine a Q-similar body with 4/3rds sensor and interchangeable lenses

Can't seem to see this in my crystal ball but it is a Sony ball so FF is only 99% sure

[jdlaing]

2 hours ago, Rick in CO said:

Nothing.  Panasonic already has an established line of full-frame L-mount cameras.

The announcement was about new high end cameras for the enthusiast/professionals.  

Imagine a Q-similar body with 4/3rds sensor and interchangeable lenses.

Then it wouldn’t be L mount. 

[jaapv]

 Or professional. I used to be very enthusiastic about MTF but sensor development has not kept up with FF and APS. 

[MJB]

On 8/10/2022 at 11:50 PM, Rick in CO said:

Nothing.  Panasonic already has an established line of full-frame L-mount cameras.

The announcement was about new high end cameras for the enthusiast/professionals.  

Imagine a Q-similar body with 4/3rds sensor and interchangeable lenses.

Why in the world would Leica abandon the TL/CL line, only to develop an entirely new interchangeable lens system around an even smaller sensor?

[Rick in CO]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

19 hours ago, MJB said:

Why in the world would Leica abandon the TL/CL line, only to develop an entirely new interchangeable lens system around an even smaller sensor?

The 4/3rds lenses already exist.  The news release concerned the development of new high end cameras, not lenses.  Many good photographers consider 4/3rds to be very high quality capable (I have no experience with 4/3rds, but have admired their images) and if APS-C is out, then a new L-mount camera or a new 4/3rds camera jointly developed by Leica and Panasonic appear to be the two options.

Did the press release mention anything specifically about L-mount?  Or is this the interpretation of high end enthusiast/professional?

[LocalHero1953]

On 8/11/2022 at 1:29 PM, jaapv said:

 Or professional. I used to be very enthusiastic about MTF but sensor development has not kept up with FF and APS. 

I used to be enthusiastic about MFT as well, with an Olympus OM-D E-M5ii - a beautiful little jewel-like camera and lenses (ignoring the horrible UI). But in the end, looking at the images alongside those taken with my M240 and CL showed up the limitations of the format. It was too much like editing smartphone images. Superficially excellent (and they are, for social media) but wouldn't stand up to much manipulation, cropping or colour adjustment.

[jdlaing]

8 hours ago, Rick in CO said:

The 4/3rds lenses already exist.  The news release concerned the development of new high end cameras, not lenses.  Many good photographers consider 4/3rds to be very high quality capable (I have no experience with 4/3rds, but have admired their images) and if APS-C is out, then a new L-mount camera or a new 4/3rds camera jointly developed by Leica and Panasonic appear to be the two options.

Did the press release mention anything specifically about L-mount?  Or is this the interpretation of high end enthusiast/professional?

Ahhhh…….It’s an L mount collaboration. L2. 

[dkCambridgeshire]

It's very very likely already developed and at the prototype stage ... impossible to design and develop a new camera in just one year. 

When The Leica Society visited Leica Duke Street last November, during the Q&A session, several questions were asked ref "... future of APS-C CL series ...??  " 

Answer from Duke Street senior management: "CL has been a good seller. The future is full frame mirrorless with GPS ..." 

This fact has been posted at least twice previously on TLF 

Any new ICL 'L mount' FF camera will be compatible with TL lenses with which it will revert to APS-C format 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by dkCambridgeshire

[NZDavid]

Great news, and no matter what format, I hope it will be reasonably compact — a virtue Leica at times seems to have forgotten.

[jaapv]

9 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

Any new ICL 'L mount' FF camera will be compatible with TL lenses with which it will revert to APS-C format 

Any existing L mount camera is the same.

[dkCambridgeshire]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

Any existing L mount camera is the same.

Yes, but not all have the 'box office' (saleable) compactness and high MP sensors 

[jaapv]

None has - the mistake Leica makes is that people are not buying the CL because of its sensor size but because of the compactness combined with Leica shape. They lost hold of Barnack's idea - adapt the film size to the size of the camera you want to design whilst retaining image quality. The CL is the perfect digital expression of that idea. Let's see if they can shoehorn a FF sensor into a body the size and shape of a Barnack.

[lct]

56 minutes ago, jaapv said:

[...] Let's see if they can shoehorn a FF sensor into a body the size and shape of a Barnack.

I would not hold my breath but an SL3 the size of my R4s (139x88x60mm) would be fine for me. 

[Stuart Richardson]

Full frame sensors are common and less expensive these days. I think it is unlikely that it will be anything other than full frame. There is a greater struggle on the behalf of camera companies to differentiate themselves from smart phones, and that pushes the balance in favor of full frame, rather than 4/3rds or APS-C. As noted above, Leica discontinued APS because it was not selling enough to make sense to have the resourced devoted to selling a full line of cameras and lenses. Panasonic has spoken similarly about their 4/3rds cameras. Why would they collaborate on something they both seem to be phasing out?

[jaapv]

 I don’t think that the present APS crowd with Leica cares one whit whether the sensor is APS or FF as long as the image quality is virtually indistinguishable. Which it is on the CL and TL2. As long as Leica provides a body of the heft and size that matches the CL/TL lenses and at least 24 MP on crop it should be fine. 
as for sales numbers, that rather contradicts Duncan’s post. Do you have Leica’s minimum sales expectation for the CL? 

[lct]

Quote

« In recent years, the overall photography market has seen a decline in sales of compact and system cameras with smaller sensors. In comparison, the segment of cameras with full-frame sensors is developing particularly positively and shows continuing market growth. This development has prompted Leica Camera AG to discontinue its CL-/TL2-System cameras »

https://leicarumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Leica-CLTL-systems-are-now-officially-discontinued-1067x1536.jpg

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[dkCambridgeshire]

9 minutes ago, lct said:

https://leicarumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Leica-CLTL-systems-are-now-officially-discontinued-1067x1536.jpg

BUT —  Is / was this a genuine Leica Camera AG announcement — or is it a SPOOF to justify publication of yet another false rumour — which everyone will read together with the accompanying adverts — adverts which pay for publication of all the past 'subsequently proven to be false' rumours. When The Leica Society visited Leica Duke Street last November, reference was made by Duke Street management to publication of those past false rumours — much to everyone's amusement. 

[lct]

1 minute ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

When The Leica Society visited Leica Duke Street last November, reference was made by Duke Street management to publication of those past false rumours

The announcement i quoted above is dated 16 May 2022.