Wobbly M Elmarit 28mm f2.8 problem

[jhluxton]

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3 hours ago, madNbad said:

Sorry if it's been mentioned but the most common cause of wobbly Elmarit's are caused by grasping the lens hood to mount and unmount the lens from the body. It's easier to grasp than the body of the lens but puts more torque on the front element group causing it to become loose. It was most common with the V1 ASPH and its clip on hood. The new threaded design still puts additional stress on the front group if the users is grasping the hood instead of the lens. I've owned two VI 28 2.8 ASPH's. The first one wobbled all over and the service person gave me the hint. My latest came from someone who was careful, it's wobble free.

The lens hasn't been off the camera since April neither has the lens hood been removed nor replace. The wobble started in the last two weeks as camera was not used between July 19 and 30th. It was only when I discovered some focus problems with certain images and started checking what might be the cause did I realise the lens was wobbling. 

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[lct]

Grabbing the lens by the hood when mounting or unmounting it is an usual cause of this issue. Same for the Summicron 35/2 v4 which has a similar hood. 

[jhluxton]

Thanks for the warning about the Summicron - that is now on the camera! I presume it is a V4 bought new in 2016, though not seen much use since the Elmarit arrived in 2018. Will be very careful! Off down to my local camera repairers to see if they can do a repair on the Elmarit. 

[AndreasG]

The 28mm ASPH V1 is presently my favourite lens and since I never use the lens hood, I have to grab the lens for occasional mounting/demounting at its mounting ring, the one with the little red dot. However, this ring has a width of only 4.5mm (less than 1/6"), which is always a challenge for my heavy hands.

[lct]

26 minutes ago, jhluxton said:

Thanks for the warning about the Summicron - that is now on the camera! I presume it is a V4 bought new in 2016, though not seen much use since the Elmarit arrived in 2018. [...]

Your Summicron is probably a 35/2 asph v1 which has the same hood as that of your Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v1. In both cases, grabbing the lens by the hood is a bad habit indeed but it must be repeated for several months or even years before the problem appears generally. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by lct

[Matlock]

59 minutes ago, lct said:

Your Summicron is probably a 35/2 asph v1 which has the same hood as that of your Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v1. In both cases, grabbing the lens by the hood is a bad habit indeed but it must be repeated for several months or even years before the problem appears generally. 

Very true, both lenses are excellent and pretty well bullet proof but using the hood can impart a lot of torque.

[fotomas]

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There was a few reports in the past here in the forum about wobbly Elmarit 28 mm ASPH1, even of total separation of the front elements.

I also have one and also the 35 mm Summicron ASPH 1, with the same hood. Bought both new in 2006. Now my Elmarit also becomes wobbly, but not my 35 Summicron. The 35 mm is my all day lens. The Elmarit I only use minor. I would estimate 95% vs. 5%. So I assume that construction of the Elmarit is much more fragile then the 35 mm Summicron.

Sometimes I have grabbed both lenses on the hood, but even tough I use the Summicron much more it has no problem with this treatment.
Are there some experience how much Leica will charge for fixing the Elmarit?

[lct]

2 hours ago, fotomas said:

I also have one and also the 35 mm Summicron ASPH 1, with the same hood. Bought both new in 2006. Now my Elmarit also becomes wobbly, but not my 35 Summicron. The 35 mm is my all day lens. The Elmarit I only use minor. I would estimate 95% vs. 5%. So I assume that construction of the Elmarit is much more fragile then the 35 mm Summicron.

I use my 28/2.8 asph v1 less than my 35/2 asph v1 too but none has got wobbling issues so far i must say. I don't grab them by the hood though. Lesson learnt with my 35/2 v4 (pic) i bought in the eighties when i was not aware of the issue yet.

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Edited August 3, 2022 by lct

[jhluxton]

I have taken my lens to the well established (1947) Newton & Ellis Camera Repairers in Liverpool.

It was a slightly bizarre experience. Shop door locked, had to wring the bell. Someone came to the door and told me to put a mask on! Virtually no one in Liverpool now wears a mask that seemed to fizzle out in March.   

When I said I hadn't got one the chap told me to wait at the door and went and put his on. At this stage if it had been any other shop I would have walked away as I don't and never have done masks even at the height of the pandemic. 

The discussion about the lens was conducted on the shop door step.

After looking at it the chap told me that they don't get many Leica lenses as they tend not to go wrong them and when they do get them in for a job they are so tight that undoing them can be difficult.

He then told me his Leica repairer was on 6 months leave - but he would have a look at it and let me know in about 7 to 10 days - but he reckoned he could fix it. He then told me I must have knocked it or banged it, which assured him I had not. He obviously wasn't aware of the hood issue. I will wait and see what happens and keep my fingers crossed.

Online reviews (they do mail order repairs as well) are in the main positive 4.3 out of 5 and around a year ago someone left a five star review for the repair of an Elmar. 

Guess now it is a case of wait and see. I will report back in due course. 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by jhluxton

[1joel1]

I'm very glad I found this thread. I didn't even know that this was an issue. I checked my ASPH V1 and sure enough, there was a very, very slight wobble and movement. I've never noticed any focus errors so my wobble might not have any effect in my case. However, the seller never made a comment so perhaps they didn't know (I would like to believe that). In any case, off to DAG yesterday and I should have it back soon with a warranty and knowledge that it has been addressed should I decide to resell.

Thanks,

Joel

[jhluxton]

15 hours ago, 1joel1 said:

I'm very glad I found this thread. I didn't even know that this was an issue. I checked my ASPH V1 and sure enough, there was a very, very slight wobble and movement. I've never noticed any focus errors so my wobble might not have any effect in my case. However, the seller never made a comment so perhaps they didn't know (I would like to believe that). In any case, off to DAG yesterday and I should have it back soon with a warranty and knowledge that it has been addressed should I decide to resell.

Thanks,

Joel

MIne went from no wobble to big wobble at least 3mm.

The issue manifested itself in uneven focus of subjects equidistant from the lens - thus part of the picture was in focus and the other part not so even though it should have been. It was that which led me to look at the lens. 

The Elmarit had lived on the ME240 since 2019 not removed and neither have I had course to remove the lens hood just the lens cap which goes over the hood, though giving the cap's flimsy fitting which often results in it popping off means that requires no force. 

Reflecting further on my situation I think I may have put pressure in the hood when inserting it into my camera bag as I keep the camera in the soft M neoprene case in the bag which obviously does not add any rigid protection. It may well have caught on something or been levered by one of the partitions.

When mine is fixed I will be a lot more thoughtful about giving it space in the bag. Normally it has fitted happily into a Billingham Hadley Pro with my M262 which has tele lens permanently attached and I swap between them depending on subject matter.  

When deciding which 28mm M lens to buy I did quite a bit of research and it came down to either the Emarit or Summaron - with the Elmarit winning based on its wider aperture. I am now suffering from delayed buyer's remorse and wished I had bought the Summaron as its vintage looks appealed - if only I had known!!! 

 

 

[Matlock]

Whilst accepting that this "wobble" can happen, probably as a result of force via the hood, I do hope this post doesn't go the way of a post on another forum that I subscribe to (not camera related). A new limited edition of a product was reviewed and got glowing reports (as did the 28mm Elmarit Asph when first released). After a couple of weeks a post came in about a problem with the owner's item, this was quickly followed by more and more complaints. Eventually the moderators had to suspend the post when it was discovered that there had been almost twice as many faulty items reported than had actually been produced. It seems that with many forums trolls love to make these false claims. I must point out that I am not suggesting that trolls have infiltrated this post. I have two Elmarits (one purchased new and one second hand which had been well used)  and neither has exhibited any such "wobble".

[ajz]

I have had this lens simply repacked, rethreaded, checked for infinity precision after being whacked by car door...and precise results...not in the UK but repaired by excellent person in Portland OR. 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

On 8/6/2022 at 1:10 PM, Matlock said:

Whilst accepting that this "wobble" can happen, probably as a result of force via the hood, I do hope this post doesn't go the way of a post on another forum that I subscribe to (not camera related). A new limited edition of a product was reviewed and got glowing reports (as did the 28mm Elmarit Asph when first released). After a couple of weeks a post came in about a problem with the owner's item, this was quickly followed by more and more complaints. Eventually the moderators had to suspend the post when it was discovered that there had been almost twice as many faulty items reported than had actually been produced. It seems that with many forums trolls love to make these false claims. I must point out that I am not suggesting that trolls have infiltrated this post. I have two Elmarits (one purchased new and one second hand which had been well used)  and neither has exhibited any such "wobble".

Two things:

- despite what you have been saying about your M5’s frame counter problem being a common problem: No it is not a common problem on M5 cameras.

-Yes, the elmarit 28mm asph V1 wobble is indeed a comon problem for that lens.

[jhluxton]

It is now a week since I handed my lens into the local camera repairer - they said 7 to 10 days.

I might retrieve it if I have not had a call back by Saturday with an appraisal of the problem and take it out to Leicastore Manchester next week. 

[jhluxton]

The wobbly Elmarit is no longer wobbly!

I have just picked it up. Summary of work done:

"Dismantled lens, tightened loose internal screws and loose internal locking collar, clean, reassemble and test. "

Then an interesting final comment:

"Someone has dismantled this lens and had not put it back correctly"

 I had bought this either as an ex-demo or boxed as mint lens. Can't exactly recall.

No reason to suggest it was really anything but nearly new. Thus surprised by this revaluation. 

The repair was actually finished Friday so just under two weeks turnaround. Cost £150 Inc VAT which seemed reasonable. 

Much better than quoted earlier in the thread for around $500. 

Have to test it over next few days to make sure images are back to normal. 

 

[Bikie John]

That's good news. It must have been an anxious wait! It is always good to hear about good service, we never know when we might need it.

John

[a.noctilux]

Good news.

Reasonable cost.

Enjoy this small/nice to use/High Quality lens.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[charlesphoto99]

On 8/2/2022 at 2:38 PM, a.noctilux said:

John,

if you are brave enough, you can DIY

taking inspiration (making a tool too) from this video even if it's Summicron-M 28mm:

 

Any clue where to get a tool like that? My 28 'cron has always suffered wobble, though no focusing issues. Had it repaired once, but then the wobble returned. 

[a.noctilux]

5 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Any clue where to get a tool like that? My 28 'cron has always suffered wobble, though no focusing issues. Had it repaired once, but then the wobble returned. 

Sorry I don't know.

Maybe someone can give a source.

I'm sure this is DIY job.

In his video, the measurements can be seen.