Summicron M 35 (8 element)

[Michael Geschlecht]

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On 10/3/2022 at 1:50 PM, luigi bertolotti said:

Apart other details, for me the easy and quick way to identify an 8 element Summicron 35 (goggled or not), is the DOF scale : slanted in the 8 elements, otherwise straight vertical.

 

Hello Luigi,

A correction of a typographical error: Both the the 8 element, Version I, 35mm f2 Summicron & the 6 element 35mm f2.8 Summaron share a similar focusing mount with similar layouts of engraved depth of field scale aperture lines. Both have most depth of field aperture lines running perpendicular to the camera body

The differences are:

The presence of the f2 engraving on the 35mm f2 Summicron, Version I

The presence of the f22 engraving on the 35mm f2.8 Summaron

There is the engraving of "2.8" on the 35mm f2.8 Summaron. But, not on the 35mm f2 Summicron. There are differences in the layouts of the engravings of the aperture lines for f2.8 on the 2 different lenses.

It is the 7 element 35mm f2 Summicron, beginning 1979, that has the slanted aperture line engravings. This is because the "focus throw" of the 7 element 35mm f2 Summicron was shortened. This meant that the lines indicating the limit of the depth of field had to be brought proportionately closer together. While: The engraving of the aperture numbers still required a certain size in order to be usable. This takes a certain amount of space. Which led to the angled engraved lines running from the aperture numbers: To their new appropriate positions.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht

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[romualdo]

49 minutes ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Luigi,

A correction of a typographical error: Both the the 8 element, Version I, 35mm f2 Summicron & the 6 element 35mm f2.8 Summaron share a similar focusing mount with similar layouts of engraved depth of field scale aperture lines. Both have most depth of field aperture lines running perpendicular to the camera body

The differences are:

The presence of the f2 engraving on the 35mm f2 Summicron, Version I

The presence of the f22 engraving on the 35mm f2.8 Summaron

There is the engraving of "2.8" on the 35mm f2.8 Summaron. But, not on the 35mm f2 Summicron. There are differences in the layouts of the engravings of the aperture lines for f2.8 on the 2 different lenses.

It is the 7 element 35mm f2 Summicron, beginning 1979, that has the slanted aperture line engravings. This is because the "focus throw" of the 7 element 35mm f2 Summicron was shortened. This meant that the lines indicating the limit of the depth of field had to be brought proportionately closer together. While: The engraving of the aperture numbers still required a certain size in order to be usable. Which takes a certain amount of space. Which led to the angled engraved lines running from the aperture numbers: To their new appropriate positions.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Michael, I interpreted Luigi's explanation as the actual aperture ring (rather than the actual engraved lines - "the DOF scale is slanted") - the ring in version 1 is slanted like the Summaron 2.8 whereas the later models have a vertical aperture ring

I accept that the fourth version has slanted engraved lines.

We'll see what Luigi says?

[Michael Geschlecht]

38 minutes ago, romualdo said:

Michael, I interpreted Luigi's explanation as the actual aperture ring (rather than the actual engraved lines - "the DOF scale is slanted") - the ring in version 1 is slanted like the Summaron 2.8 whereas the later models have a vertical aperture ring

I accept that the fourth version has slanted engraved lines.

We'll see what Luigi says?

Hello romualdo,

Thank you. That is interesting.

I thought that Luigi was comparing the 8 element 35mm f2 Summicron, Version I. To the 6 element 35mm f2.8 Summaron.

Yes, the Versions II & III 35mm f2 Summicrons have a straight, not sloped, lens mount where their depth of field apertures are engraved. Both are 6 element lenses.

This is a similar situation to the sloped lens mount on the 7 element "Rigid" 50mm f2 Summicron. As opposed to the straight lens mount of the 6 element 50mm f2 Summicron that succeeded it. Whether the 6 element lens is in the "scalloped & knurled", or the "knurled" (No scallops) version.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited May 25, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht

[luigi bertolotti]

Thanks for the "philologycal" observations on my post 🙂 : my intent was an answer to the question from ironringer "Excuse me for asking a basic question - could Summicron M 35mm "8 element" users tell us how to recognise that type from the more common (7 element?) versions?"  To say, Summicron vs. Summicron and "recognising" interpreted as "distinguishing the  versions looking at the item - not looking at pictures taken with"(*) - Summaron was out of matter. I'm not so in depth in English to say if the best term to define the DOF f/stop scale is "slanted" or "sloped"... 🤔 but I see that you have understood fie what I meant.

(*) My interpretation is questionable : ironringer wrote "users" , not simply "owners", and this can make to think of practical usage domain...

Edited May 25, 2023 by luigi bertolotti

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Luigi,

Your English is fine. You should write here more often.

I would write that the lens mount is "sloped". Both would be acceptable.

It is interesting. When you ask a first language/native speaker of a language the "how" or "why" that they know something: They sometimes can not tell you. But they often can tell you the correct, or preferred, way to say/write something. Even if they are not sure why or how they know that.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited May 25, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht