Visoflex 2 - Overheating

[Flamboyant]

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Hello everybody

I finally sold my visoflex 020 and bought a visoflex 2.
Very happy with my purchase (well almost...)

It is true that the screen of the 2 is smaller on my M10-D but I find the brightness more pleasant and with my glasses, to be able to see all the contours of the screen and a design that is really more coherent and versatile (no need gps) for me.

On the other hand, I have big concerns about the battery life when I use the visoflex 2 and the fact that the battery heats up enormously and very quickly.

I took 2 hours of continuous photos the last time with the visoflex and my camera was really boiling, no failure either of the camera or of the viewfinder, but a camera that went out in 2 hours and was almost unusable because of the heat...

I don't often use the visoflex but when I need it I will use it a lot and for a short time (with a 24mm lens or when I use it with the leica elpro 52 macro ring)

I don't know if the fact that the battery heats up very quickly is normal and if you have the same problem.
But In normal use, my M10-D has never heated up like this. And you ???

Edited July 12, 2022 by Flamboyant

[Hans-Dieter Gülicher]

I`m using the Visoflex 2 continuously with my M 10-R over about three months. Up to now without any battery problems and heating. I like it as I need it (as the old one). May be your M 10-D d`nt like the V2. Are there exist problems with the firmware?  Ask Leica!

Hans

Edited July 12, 2022 by Hans-Dieter Gülicher

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[M11 for me]

@Flamboyant we can not see your pics

[Flamboyant]

I will try with another battery and I will ask to Leica germany but if someone else has an M10-D and a visoflex 2, let me know...
Pics is just for fun ^^

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[rramesh]

I am using it on my m10-p and have not seen any such problem. Also I ensure the camera turns off automatically after 2 min of inactivity. Are you able to do this?

Edited July 13, 2022 by rramesh

[sinjun]

18 hours ago, Flamboyant said:

but if someone else has an M10-D and a visoflex 2, let me know...

I have M10-d and visoflex 2. I used it intensively for the first time just recently and did notice a marked increase in temperature. It was hot and sunny and the camera was in the sun, so difficult to attribute all the warming to the viso but I did definitely feel as though it was warmer than it should be on the battery side, and battery drain was also very marked.

[Flamboyant]

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@rramesh, thanks but in fact I always use this 2 minute auto power off setting. So it doesn't change anything ^^

[Flamboyant]

@sinjun, Thanks for your feedback. Interesting, so chances are this is a wider issue on M10-Ds with visoflex 2.
Chances of getting feedback from other M10-D users, under normal conditions ? Thanks

I have just realized that the heat does not necessarily come from the battery but from the case compartment in the same place as the battery (on the right and at the back).

Edited July 13, 2022 by Flamboyant

[microview]

19 hours ago, Flamboyant said:

I will try with another battery and I will ask to Leica germany but if someone else has an M10-D and a visoflex 2, let me know...
Pics is just for fun ^^

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Fun Pic No 1 finally puts me off getting that massive EVF. I'll get the older 020 which I always thought was a nice design (albeit focus lock not so good...).

[jakontil]

2 hours ago, Flamboyant said:

@sinjun, Thanks for your feedback. Interesting, so chances are this is a wider issue on M10-Ds with visoflex 2.
Chances of getting feedback from other M10-D users, under normal conditions ? Thanks

I have just realized that the heat does not necessarily come from the battery but from the case compartment in the same place as the battery (on the right and at the back).

Liveview alone will generate heat, if u use quite intensively and continuously when it gets hot, i think it is quite normal

when i use my M10 r to scan negative films in total of 3 rolls for instance, like 100 exposures, the left hand side of the body part from the rear LCD gets very warm

[Flamboyant]

@jakontil, thanks for your feedback but :
My M10-D (without screen) never got hot during classic photos sessions (even intensive ones). When I had the visoflex 020 (liveview) I never had a problem with the camera overheating.
It's only with the visoflex 2 that I encounter this problem. And there is no need to use it intensively, for the case to start heating up nicely (on the battery side), even after 5 minutes.

[jslabovitz]

I had something like this happen once, with my M10-D and the Visoflex 020 (which is almost always mounted and used). The camera got scary hot and I remember the LED on the back kept blinking red, as if it were writing a large file. Finally I turned it off for a few minutes to cool down, and that seemed to help. I've never had it come up again. Maybe there's some situation where this is triggered?

[jakontil]

5 hours ago, Flamboyant said:

@jakontil, thanks for your feedback but :
My M10-D (without screen) never got hot during classic photos sessions (even intensive ones). When I had the visoflex 020 (liveview) I never had a problem with the camera overheating.
It's only with the visoflex 2 that I encounter this problem. And there is no need to use it intensively, for the case to start heating up nicely (on the battery side), even after 5 minutes.

Ah okey if the phenomenon dont exist when using 020, than may be something not normal when paired with viso 2 

hope it aint because its too much to handle 

[fenykepesz]

with the M10-D there seem to be issues of warming up and draining the battery like crazy - related to various situations and circumstances as we can read it on this forum and other fora on and off.  mine was something rather erratic and scary : see here and there though i am not sure if related to yours.  moreover, it was a transient problem, for a few weeks or months.  in general, i believe that the hardware/firmware/OS interactions in our screen-less model are not entirely harmonic, less then perfect in other words, something however we D-users need to live with...

[Flamboyant]

Thanks @jslabovitz for your feedback. Interesting to know that this can also happen with the visoflex020 sometime. Let us know if it happens again.
but I have the impression that it happens to a lot of people, even professionals... (see paragraph “Less is More in Hardware Level") : 
https://medium.com/rokkorxblog/m10d-7ccae345a5ce

@sinjun, it would be interesting to test again, in a more normal situation (temperature, duration) in order to see if the problem appears again... Please let me know.
For my part, this is systematic with the use of the visoflex 2. After a few minutes the camera begins to heat up at the location of the battery and of course it drains the battery quickly...

@fenykepesz, as you say,  I am afraid that unfortunately D-users need to live with... and that nothing should be expected from leica!

I will forward the information and the various testimonies to leica (even if I do not believe at all that they will do something, because I think they know the problem)

[sinjun]

OK I'll try a controlled experiment when this hot weather is over (UK) with and without EVF. I've got an IR thermometer somewhere which should give a pretty accurate measure of camera surface temperature at different locations.

[sinjun]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:07 PM, Flamboyant said:

it would be interesting to test again, in a more normal situation (temperature, duration) in order to see if the problem appears again...

I've done a few tests with M10-d and Visoflex 2 using an IR temperature gauge.

First test was with Visoflex 2, with 100 shots in 12 minutes (about one every 7 seconds) with focussing in between to bring up enlarged contrast-based focus confirmation in EVF. I measured the temperature of 4 points on the leather covering on the back of the camera, top left, bottom left, top right, bottom right. Ambient temperature was close to 22C. The warmest part at the end of the test was the top right, with a temperature of 37.1 C. Other parts of the back were around 32 C. Battery went from 100% to 85%.

I left camera for 10 minutes to regain equilibrium temperature, then did same test (100 shots in 12 minutes) without Visoflex. Again, warmest part of back was top right, this time 32.7 C. Other parts of back around 30 C. Battery went from 85% to 80%.

This seems to be a rather modest warming on the face of it. One might infer a 3 times greater battery drain with the Viso but I wouldn't trust the indicated values enough to use this as an accurate estimate.

I followed this with a test using the Visoflex in a way which reflects perhaps more typical usage, with 82 shots in about 40 minutes outside with ambient temperature 22-24C. It was partly cloudy with the sun on the camera for only about 20 % of the time. Here I found a bigger differential in temperature across the back of the camera, with the top right reaching 40-42C for sustained periods, and other parts of the rear of the camera 25-30C. This felt quite warm on my hand, though not alarmingly so. The battery drained from 80% to 15%.

Note that my practice is to hold the camera with the thumb lever out and the top of my right hand somewhat away from the leather on the back, so this lessens any insulation effects relative to the bottom right of the camera where my hand is in contact with the leather. The auto off setting was left at the standard 2 minutes.

Overall I would say that the battery drain and resulting warming when the Visoflex 2 are in use are more than I would want but I wouldn't describe the temperature as alarming or boiling. My shooting style is such that I've never felt the need to have a spare battery with any digital camera before, but this makes me think I'm going to need one.

 

[jakontil]

9 hours ago, sinjun said:

I've done a few tests with M10-d and Visoflex 2 using an IR temperature gauge.

First test was with Visoflex 2, with 100 shots in 12 minutes (about one every 7 seconds) with focussing in between to bring up enlarged contrast-based focus confirmation in EVF. I measured the temperature of 4 points on the leather covering on the back of the camera, top left, bottom left, top right, bottom right. Ambient temperature was close to 22C. The warmest part at the end of the test was the top right, with a temperature of 37.1 C. Other parts of the back were around 32 C. Battery went from 100% to 85%.

I left camera for 10 minutes to regain equilibrium temperature, then did same test (100 shots in 12 minutes) without Visoflex. Again, warmest part of back was top right, this time 32.7 C. Other parts of back around 30 C. Battery went from 85% to 80%.

This seems to be a rather modest warming on the face of it. One might infer a 3 times greater battery drain with the Viso but I wouldn't trust the indicated values enough to use this as an accurate estimate.

I followed this with a test using the Visoflex in a way which reflects perhaps more typical usage, with 82 shots in about 40 minutes outside with ambient temperature 22-24C. It was partly cloudy with the sun on the camera for only about 20 % of the time. Here I found a bigger differential in temperature across the back of the camera, with the top right reaching 40-42C for sustained periods, and other parts of the rear of the camera 25-30C. This felt quite warm on my hand, though not alarmingly so. The battery drained from 80% to 15%.

Note that my practice is to hold the camera with the thumb lever out and the top of my right hand somewhat away from the leather on the back, so this lessens any insulation effects relative to the bottom right of the camera where my hand is in contact with the leather. The auto off setting was left at the standard 2 minutes.

Overall I would say that the battery drain and resulting warming when the Visoflex 2 are in use are more than I would want but I wouldn't describe the temperature as alarming or boiling. My shooting style is such that I've never felt the need to have a spare battery with any digital camera before, but this makes me think I'm going to need one.

 

Thanks for real life testing, we can safe to say the viso might consume more battery while generating more heats but nothing is too worrying

[Flamboyant]

Hey @sinjun
Big thanks for the precise test. This shows that there is a temperature difference in the same place as me. I don't know if it's related to where the hand is placed.
Leica has just sent me a visoflex 020 so that I can measure the temperature difference with the visoflex 2 (I need to find an infrared thermometer 😦)

In the meantime (just for fun) here is a comparison of the size of the screens inside the two visoflex and the color drift.

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[Flamboyant]

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