Totally feeling sad and heart broken. Bye Leica...

[Darthaddie]

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On 6/26/2022 at 9:28 PM, lx1713 said:

Hi Darthaddie,

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Just wondering about your change in work style. in post #1 you work solely with manual lenses. And in post #3 below you have become fond of Sony's AF but complained about Leica manual lenses' AF performance. There's a substantial disconnect in logic here.

Voiglander and Leica M lenses do have a problem with autofocus.

Fair question! I have always shot on full manual camera settings with any camera I've ever used. Wether it is with AF lenses or MF. When you have been shooting weddings for over 8 years you tend to look for new things and new ways to be creative. In my early years it was the M/SL with manual lenses and the Summilux 50 1.4. It was amazing.

After like 3-4 years I moved to much larger weddings and events. Mostly chaotic but very rewarding both financially and creatively. That's when I moved entirely to the SL/SL2/SL2S for professional work. I loved every moment shooting with these, but I would most often miss the most amazing moments while the Leica was focusing. I saw it everyday inside the EVF as life happened. But it didn't matter cause I still got some shots.

The SL and M lenses mostly don't work on situations like when the bridal party enters the reception. The SL/SL2 massively fail in backlit situations.  

I consider my cameras as tools. I loved the tools Leica provided. But no more..... 

When I first picked up the A1 I was able to take shots I never could before. Only then I realized the Leica AF actually sucked. Since then my style changed a bit more. It so much more fluent. From my last 9 weddings I have shot with the Sony, 3 of my clients actually went gaga over a few photos that would seem impossible to take. lol

So in effect there is no disconnect in my style of shooting. Its more of an evolution....

[Darthaddie]

2 hours ago, Gavin Cato said:

That's rather presumptuous of you. When I had my first SL2 die, I went out and bought 2 x SL2-s's the next day. 

Then a SL2 then a SL2-s died, and so I pulled the plug when I had a possibility of 3 cameras simultaneously away for a expected 4 month turnaround.

I don't mind having money invested into redundant gear, but that was a bit extreme.

Wonderful, wonderful cameras when they work. I sincerely hope everyone has positive experiences and doesn't go through what I did.

I hear ya! Going through almost the same things. 

[Darthaddie]

UPDATE: Leica did not repair my cameras in time. And the NJ office is now moving. So they will not touch cameras in service until they are all settled in. Here goes another 30-45 business days. 😩

[Darthaddie]

On 6/21/2022 at 8:06 PM, gotium said:

I'm just a hobbyist and don't use the SL system (too big), but my experiences with Leica USA when I needed repairs have ranged from not-very-good to absolutely *TERRIBLE* - I could not imagine relying on them if I needed my gear for work. 

My experience with Leica USA p*ssed me off so much though that I would have switched to Sony IF I could have gotten the colors to work! But I'm just a hobbyist and I can't, at least not with the a7c. 

So if you have any Sony color tips, having just made the change, I'd love to hear them!

I just opened my Sony RAWs in Capture one and Whoa!!!!!!!!! They have the same color tones as my Leica. The Sony A1 ProStandard profiles are so close and edit the same way so I don't have to switch my editing style. I also tried opening the RAW files in the Sony RAW processor. They look so amazing. It's Adobe messing up Sony colors. At least on my A1. 

I am really happy now...

[telyt]

1 hour ago, Darthaddie said:

I just opened my Sony RAWs in Capture one and Whoa!!!!!!!!! They have the same color tones as my Leica. The Sony A1 ProStandard profiles are so close and edit the same way so I don't have to switch my editing style. I also tried opening the RAW files in the Sony RAW processor. They look so amazing. It's Adobe messing up Sony colors. At least on my A1. 

I am really happy now...

I'm also using Capture 1 for my a1 photos.  Delighted with the colors, couldn't be happier.

Edited June 28, 2022 by telyt

[lx1713]

2 hours ago, Darthaddie said:

The SL and M lenses mostly don't work on situations like when the bridal party enters the reception. The SL/SL2 massively fail in backlit situations.  

Thanks, I appreciate you answering. And I hear you regarding the Sony A1 😊. Its a bit like me coming to the Leica SL from a Canon 1D but in reverse for yourself.

Backlit situations are definitely tough but I had done a few with SL (601)/24-90 with the AF doing fine. The EVF doesn't refresh in sync with the action but the AF actually tracked motion well. With both the SL2 and SL2S, I haven't do much backlit shots lately so that something I need to test out.

What are your settings in AFs and AFc?

In the beginning, I do count more in-focus keepers from the Canon 1D, as much as 15-25% more than the SL. However, I have gotten much more comfortable with the SL2S and it's been a pretty solid performer all round in both AF and MF but I'm keeping my fingers crossed with regards to camera failures.

Wish you success journeying with the A1 🙂

 

 

[Jean-Michel]

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107 posts in this topic.

2 photographers claiming that their SL2 and/or SL2S "died" and not able to get them serviced.

A few other relating experiences with servicing of various other Leica products.

My own observations: my own servicing by Leica in the  digital era has only been for M9 sensor replacements, and those took, if memory serves, about 4 weeks each. Servicing a M-P (stuck roller) also took 4 weeks. All repairs in NJ. Any servicing for film Ms were done locally in Toronto by an independent shop, and those took a week or two.  Getting Hasselblad cameras and lenses serviced, by a Hasselblad authorized shop, used to take 2 to 4 weeks too. If necessary, when some equipment went for servicing and I needed a backup I simply rented the stuff.

I pretty much retired from commercial work, so have time to peruse this forum. And now going out to photograph wit SL2 and a donated Canon FD 70-210 lens for fun!

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Jean-Michel

[Darthaddie]

1 hour ago, lx1713 said:

What are your settings in AFs and AFc?

I rarely could use AFc. The camera would more than expected freeze under stress. So I eventually gave up and either manually focussed or simply used AFs. 

[Darthaddie]

2 hours ago, telyt said:

I'm also using Capture 1 for my a1 photos.  Delighted with the colors, couldn't be happier.

Surprisingly of all the YouTubers claiming fixes with Color checkers and calibration profiles, no one mentions Capture one. lol

[Gavin Cato]

6 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

2 photographers claiming that their SL2 and/or SL2S "died" and not able to get them serviced.

Love the quotation marks. Yeah, I'm just making it up for fun. And I totally fabricated the photos of my 3 bodies saying "system error" in big red letters for amusement. And I totally made up the story about the 3 bodies needing to go away for months, just for internet points and because I'm really bored and have tons of time on my hands in between shooting 135 weddings this year and looking after 3 kids.

[hepcat]

6 hours ago, Darthaddie said:

Surprisingly of all the YouTubers claiming fixes with Color checkers and calibration profiles, no one mentions Capture one. lol

Capture One came with my Phase One cameras years ago and I've come to depend on it for pp my Phase One raw files, but as it was the free version, it wouldn't do any other files. I was still using LR 5.7 for my Nikon raw files.   When I bought the Lumix DC-S1, I bought the commercial version.   It's worth every penny. 

[caissa]

On 6/28/2022 at 12:43 PM, Gavin Cato said:

That's rather presumptuous of you. When I had my first SL2 die, I went out and bought 2 x SL2-s's the next day. 

Then a SL2 then a SL2-s died, and so I pulled the plug when I had a possibility of 3 cameras simultaneously away for a expected 4 month turnaround.

I don't mind having money invested into redundant gear, but that was a bit extreme.

Wonderful, wonderful cameras when they work. I sincerely hope everyone has positive experiences and doesn't go through what I did.

I have only positive experiences since more than 40 years. (Exception one lens, and that the R system went bust in 2009).

so this is what counts for me. Don’t you agree ?

All this complaining about quality is boring. Maybe you think it is the reason for fora to exist, but I think it does not help to complain louder than others. 

Good experience (like me), so stay Leica user. Bad experience (like you), help yourself (choose a more reliable brand).

Of course there were also bad experiences with other brands. But why make a fuss about it. I simply forget it. It does not help in any way to chew it over and over.

 

Presumptious. What a word. I had to look in the dictionary what it means. Is it a common word in Australia? I feel puzzled, maybe I still have not completely grabbed what it means ...     I find this rather weird.  You seem to be hurt by anything and are looking for fault by the whole world.  I would suggest you finally stop here, before it gets totally ridiculous.

Edited June 29, 2022 by caissa

[Photoworks]

31 minutes ago, caissa said:

I have only positive experiences since more than 40 years. (Exception one lens, and that the R system went bust in 2009).

so this is what counts for me. Don’t you agree ?

All this complaining about quality is boring. Maybe you think it is the reason for fora to exist, but I think it does not help to complain louder than others. 

Good experience (like me), so stay Leica user. Bad experience (like you), help yourself (choose a more reliable brand).

Of course there were also bad experiences with other brands. But why make a fuss about it. I simply forget it. It does not help in any way to chew it over and over.

 

Presumptious. What a word. I had to look in the dictionary what it means. Is it a common word in Australia? I feel puzzled, maybe I still have not completely grabbed what it means ...     I find this rather weird.  You seem to be hurt by anything and are looking for fault by the whole world.  I would suggest you finally stop here, before it gets totally ridiculous.

Not sure what is the point you are putting out there. you clicked on the title and read into it, and even left a critique about it. you din't have to read it.

It is important that everyone has a voice. I don't think we need to hide the facts of cameras breaking down. It is more important to give this people to point it out and give Leica the opportunity to improve.

I have contact Leica support on many issues and slowly they make improvements to benefit the collective.

Cheers 

[laowai_]

On 6/27/2022 at 1:20 PM, otto.f said:

What is the sense anyway to introduce camera’s and lenses to the consumer, which are not available for months and months. The APO Summicron 35 is still hardly available world-over. What kind of company is this!

This is rather common for companies that are heavily invested in engineering. A product may be "done" in the engineers' minds and there is always a push to recover the investment quickly. People don't see that it takes a few month to train the sales organization, train the channel, clear up old inventory, get stocking orders, get Marcom ready to launch the product, generate excitement and demand, publish 'reviews' on social media platforms, invite influencers and early adapters, etc. It appears to me as if Leica is doing quite well with some of these aspect. 

[laowai_]

On 6/27/2022 at 1:30 AM, becker said:

Leica is too small to "win" against the big Japanese producers . In every aspect. Japanese makers sleep in their Laboratory outfits ( if they sleep ) this is some steps beyond....I buy a lot in Japan and the US, never any discussion , the customer is always right. Service is top. 

Working for the US branch of a Japanese company (after working for the US branch of a German company for many years) I can clearly state that this is not true. Hourly employees work hourly with overpay and all, nobody sleeps in their lab outfits.

Exempt employees in the US tend to put in by far the most hours; Japanese tend to be very focused at work, well organized and procedural, in other words, they get more tasks done in the same time; in the US would argue that we are more 'creative'. In Germany, companies get fined (the respective manager personally) if employees spend too much time in the office. 

 

[telyt]

8 hours ago, caissa said:

Good experience (like me), so stay Leica user. Bad experience (like you), help yourself (choose a more reliable brand).

 

I am happy for you that your experience has been positive.  For myself it was a long series of bad experiences that led me to look for greener grass on the other side of the fence (which has been working out quite well).

Sending a camera to New Jersey at least four times to correct a problem that didn't exist before a CLA is a bad experience, particularly when I can replicate the problem right away after the camera returns from "repair".  Calling New Jersey multiple times, where I sent a lens, to inquire after several months as to whether they had looked at the lens, and getting no answer and a full voice mail box is a bad experience.  The lens finally returned after eight months un-repaired and with additional damage is a bad experience.  I'd have to have been a masochist to stay with Leica.

Edited June 29, 2022 by telyt

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, telyt said:

Calling New Jersey multiple times, where I sent a lens, to inquire after several months as to whether they had looked at the lens, and getting no answer and a full voice mail box is a bad experience.  The lens finally returned after eight months un-repaired and with additional damage is a bad experience.  I'd have to have been a masochist to stay with Leica.

Or you could have just sent the lens to DAG and been happy.

Jeff

[telyt]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Or you could have just sent the lens to DAG and been happy.

Jeff

Yes this was the solution for the lens.  Leica said that parts were no longer available; DAG replaced three screws and the lens was returned in excellent condition.  However I'm uncomfortable relying on a sole source for repairs or maintenance, no matter how skilled.  Any number of unfortunate incidents can make that individual unavailable at any time.

Consider the context: I was considering the SL; if any repairs are necessary under warranty it would be through Leica, and my experience with Leica's service was terrible.  This led me to conclude that no matter how good the SL is, I'd be stuck with Leica's repair service.  No thank you.

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, telyt said:

Yes this was the solution for the lens.  Leica said that parts were no longer available; DAG replaced three screws and the lens was returned in excellent condition.  However I'm uncomfortable relying on a sole source for repairs or maintenance, no matter how skilled.  Any number of unfortunate incidents can make that individual unavailable at any time.

Consider the context: I was considering the SL; if any repairs are necessary under warranty it would be through Leica, and my experience with Leica's service was terrible.  This led me to conclude that no matter how good the SL is, I'd be stuck with Leica's repair service.  No thank you.

Understood.  For me, I stick to dealers that will better expedite service, typically with Germany, and offer loaner/exchange when possible.  For the M in particular, there are a few other excellent third party repair techs besides Don.  

Jeff

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[IkarusJohn]

On 6/24/2022 at 9:24 PM, wanderingkiwi said:

Shit customer service seems to be par for the course when dealing with high-end luxury companies (particularly European ones). I've had some interesting experiences buying European firearms. Great build quality, but they're almost always f*cken over-engineered, and good luck when something goes wrong. Simply getting hold of a parts diagram or getting in touch with a technician at the factory is an exercise in futility. 

I've been a long time user of Leica sport optics (scopes, binoculars, rangefinders etc). While Leica Sport Optics division was once notorious for poor customer service (at least compared to their competition), they turned a page a few years ago, and they now seem to be on the right track. All of their sport optics are currently being manufactured in Portugal, and from what I understand, there are repair facilities in the USA. 

So perhaps that's the key? Start manufacturing Leica cameras in Portugal lol. That'll really piss some people off.  

 

I wouldn’t be too put off by the experience of others reported here.  For every problem, there are many with no problems at all.

I live in a wee country at the bottom of the World with a small population and few Leica photographers (yes, the Land of the Long White Cloud).  I’ve been shooting Leica since the M9 was released, and I’ve had my fair share of problems.  The SL was the best, most complete camera when I got it, til it locked up never to go again.  But I remain a Leica user (binoculars, the Magnus scope for my Steyr, and more than a few cameras and lenses).

Now, I don’t have the luxury (?) of a Leica workshop down the road (like New Jersey).  So, I have developed a good relationship with the Leica dealer I prefer, and with the importer, and with Customer Service in Wetzlar.  I buy from them, they get me hard to find lenses, I’m patient, and I pay what they ask when they ask, and when I sell I offer them first dibs.  So, when my M9 Monochrom was delayed (it was a special order silver chrome version), the distributor lent me their camera to use while I waited; when my SL bricked, the dealer lent me their demo until mine was replaced.  I could go on.

My experience has been that sometimes things go wrong.  When they have, for me, Leica has looked after me well.  I’m not a dentist.  I live in New Zealand.

My Sony experiences have not been happy (never understood PlayStation); I just can’t cope with Canon and its buttons; and the Nikon was just … too big, too complicated and just … too much.  Despite what you read, I would recommend Leica.