Considering switching to the SL2-S/Q2 kit for weddings

[bcapphoto]

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29 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Your lens selection matches the SL Apo-Summicron lenses (1.4 in APS-C is similar to 2.0 in full frame): 18-->28, 32-->50, 60-->90. There's no 135 (equivalent to 90 in APS-C) in Leica's range, but there are workarounds for that.

 

My thinking is that - I'd have the Q2 as the 28mm option. I'd have the 75mm APO for a 85mm-ish option (portraits, prep, etc.) and I'd have my M10/50Lux ASPH if I wanted to pull that out. 

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[hdmesa]

I'm not sure how you (OP) can read the responses here and not run like hell. You must have made up your mind already before asking, IMO.

If you do go with an SL system, make sure you're not just counting on a single Fujifilm body as backup. That might save you on a single job, but then what is your backup while the Leica gear is out of service for several months while you wait on it to be repaired? Leica's repair turnaround time is almost untenable when using their gear for a hobby much less a business.

[Chris W]

I'm not in the photography business, but I think it would be more sensible to have spare bodies and one set of lenses, rather than two separate camera systems (Leica and Fuji).

You can mix and match brands within the L mount alliance. Or just buy two Fuji bodies, or two Nikon/Sony/Canon bodies etc.

[oka]

I made a switch from Canon to Leica few years ago.

First, Leica seems to have separate support services for pro’s. They do have loaners like Canon / Nikon. Problem is that they send it from Germany than handling it locally.

I tried to use M10’s for weddings but it was quite problematic. M10’s RF was constantly drifting and bodies failed for various reasons.

SL worked great so in the end I ended up with two SL’s and M’s as backup.

Now I use two SL2S and two M11’s but it’s same story as with M10’s… they are nowhere as reliable as SL2S.

While I have SL APO lenses, I use only M lenses (Noct50 on one body and second has Lux28 or Lux21) for weddings. AF is overrated 😂

I do have 15+ lenses so in case of emergency, I do have own spares to use BUT with working Leica needs either great support from your dealer (who even can give full kit, in this case Canon as I’m familiar with the system) and good contact to Leica customer support.

Is it worth it, well no one can answer that BUT you can’t argue that images looks special at least for your eyes and shooting experience is something what no one else can provide.

Edited June 3, 2022 by oka

[RBB]

I live in Europe and switched after 30 years Nikon to Leica, NPS is / was a great service. Nowadays I am no longer dependent on equipment for my income. Next to Leica I used Fuji and Panasonic, it took Fuji two months to repair and Panasonic five months. My GAS problem (not really a problem, only budget issue) takes care for spare equipment. I really like the Leica experience of shooting and for my switching back and forth to other camera manufactories made me crazy. I have sold the Panasonic S5 en replaced it with the SL2s, should have don it right away, would have saved me some money. Bottom line, be sure to have enough spare equipment especially when you are a professional and dependent on it. 

[BernardC]

6 hours ago, RBB said:

Bottom line, be sure to have enough spare equipment especially when you are a professional and dependent on it. 

Exactly. People here often forget that all professionals need backups, regardless of brand. When I used to shoot weddings I had three kits: main, a backup, and a backup to the backup. I was a second shooter, so the main shooter also had multiple backups.

In the end I never needed the backups when shooting with the SL, but I wouldn't have shown-up without them. I only ever opened those extra bags if I needed something unusual like a fisheye or a long tele.

By the way, I've heard that Leica will expedite repairs if you are a working professional, but not if they've never heard of you (or from you) before. You can't just call out of the blue and tell them you're a pro with no web site, social media presence, tear sheets, etc.

I guess that you also need to own a significant amount of their kit, but that's exactly the same as Canon's Pro service where you need to have pro bodies and a minimum number of L lenses.

[JimKnopf]

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vor einer Stunde schrieb BernardC:

By the way, I've heard that Leica will expedite repairs if you are a working professional, but not if they've never heard of you (or from you) before. You can't just call out of the blue and tell them you're a pro with no web site, social media presence, tear sheets, etc.

 

if that is the case, then it is absolutely unprofessional and indecent.
Just because you're not an influencer, Instagram or Facebook nerd and possibly have an outdated homepage - that's why you shouldn't be a professional?
I've never heard such nonsense before.

Even if that is the case, it shows a weak character.

[oka]

3 hours ago, JimKnopf said:

if that is the case, then it is absolutely unprofessional and indecent.
Just because you're not an influencer, Instagram or Facebook nerd and possibly have an outdated homepage - that's why you shouldn't be a professional?
I've never heard such nonsense before.

Even if that is the case, it shows a weak character.

Leica doesn't have public support option for professionals. They don't publicly inform what you're required to have before you have "pro" status.

It's not nonsense, it's just ... Leica. Everyone notices reading this forum that the support times varies a lot. I do believe it's because customers have different "status" to Leica.

Should Leica have NPS or CPS like support option? I don't think they should or even possible. Leica resellers do not stack spares and as service is mainly done in Wezlar, they cannot offer NPS or CPS turnarounds where they fix it usually locally.

Leica IS boutique brand, it means you do need to make some sacrifices to use Leica professionally. You need to buy more spare equipment than what you need with Canon or Nikon.

BUT you have to remember that on many markets many smaller brands (which are still bigger than Leica) are not providing local support and they send to central support centres around the world - with long turn arounds.

With Leica you should always remember that 7k lens doesn't mean you get immediately VIP treatment, it's just a single normal lens in Leica world - like buying single RF lens from Canon.

Do you expect to get VIP treatment with single RF lens from Canon? With single lens you're nowhere near the first level in CPS (silver).

[BernardC]

3 hours ago, JimKnopf said:

if that is the case, then it is absolutely unprofessional and indecent.
Just because you're not an influencer, Instagram or Facebook nerd and possibly have an outdated homepage - that's why you shouldn't be a professional?
I've never heard such nonsense before.

Even if that is the case, it shows a weak character.

I think you misunderstood the point. You can't just claim to be a working pro and skip to the front of the line. That would be unprofessional. You can however present your case. Those things that I mentioned are pretty normal for a working pro these days. 

The other option is to have your dealer contact Leica. 

If your dealer doesn't know you, and Leica doesn't know you, and you don't have any evidence of being in the business, what can Leica do other than treat you like a regular customer? 

As I mentioned, Canon has a similar process. You need to apply to join their professional support, and meet certain criteria. 

[JimKnopf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb BernardC:

Those things that I mentioned are pretty normal for a working pro these days. 

 

pretty nonsense.

I am a CPS Gold Member. The status is completely independent of any website or whether Canon knows me personally or not.

The core of the discussion is that Leica sells supposedly professional equipment, but the service is extremely opaque - and that's not professional.

[Photoworks]

7 hours ago, JimKnopf said:

if that is the case, then it is absolutely unprofessional and indecent.
Just because you're not an influencer, Instagram or Facebook nerd and possibly have an outdated homepage - that's why you shouldn't be a professional?
I've never heard such nonsense before.

Even if that is the case, it shows a weak character.

I assume you didn't get your Professional stickers? LOL

Professional means you make a living from using the camera in you tax return... influencers are to much of brands butterfly, today here tomorrow there

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[6bit]

I wouldn’t shoot Leica for professional work as you describe due to service time. 
 

I’d shoot Canon or Sony. 

[JimKnopf]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Photoworks:

I assume you didn't get your Professional stickers? LOL

Professional means you make a living from using the camera in you tax return... influencers are to much of brands butterfly, today here tomorrow there

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

🥹🤣🤭

wow. Nice. It‘s your turn. 

Leica Professionell = Leica Parking Batch?

Seriously please.
do you really have this service? Nothing known to me in Germany. I meet the professional requirements you describe.

Even after asking leica and explaining the activity, nothing was offered.

[BernardC]

14 hours ago, JimKnopf said:

pretty nonsense.

I am a CPS Gold Member. The status is completely independent of any website or whether Canon knows me personally or not.

The core of the discussion is that Leica sells supposedly professional equipment, but the service is extremely opaque - and that's not professional.

I'm not sure if you misunderstood, or if other factors are at play.

To be clear, Leica does not offer a CPS-like product. You should understand this, being a CPS Gold Member.

What I wrote is that Leica sometimes provides goodwill/preferential treatment for professionals, but you it's informal and there is some (minimal) due diligence to make sure you aren't bluffing. Maybe you don't realize this, but some people will claim to be professional just to get ahead of others...

As far as being "supposedly professional equipment," I'm not sure that Leica has made claims either way. They often showcase professionals who use Leica, but that's because a lot of talented and successful professionals happen to use their products. If anything, Leica has shied away from slapping "professional" on everything they make, and they shy away from professional aesthetics.

[BernardC]

7 hours ago, 6bit said:

I wouldn’t shoot Leica for professional work as you describe due to service time. 
 

I’d shoot Canon or Sony. 

Canon, yes. Sony however has an even worse reputation than Leica. I'm sure they gave AP some assurances, but their consumer stuff isn't in the same league as Canon or Nikon. Sony's broadcast stuff is good, but that's a different division.

[JimKnopf]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb BernardC:

I'm not sure if you misunderstood, or if other factors are at play.

To be clear, Leica does not offer a CPS-like product. You should understand this, being a CPS Gold Member.

What I wrote is that Leica sometimes provides goodwill/preferential treatment for professionals, but you it's informal and there is some (minimal) due diligence to make sure you aren't bluffing. Maybe you don't realize this, but some people will claim to be professional just to get ahead of others...

As far as being "supposedly professional equipment," I'm not sure that Leica has made claims either way. They often showcase professionals who use Leica, but that's because a lot of talented and successful professionals happen to use their products. If anything, Leica has shied away from slapping "professional" on everything they make, and they shy away from professional aesthetics.

I get it right.
Exactly what you describe is the problem.
I think this approach (doing a favor) is unfair and not transparent. I didn't try to say more or less.

[M11 for me]

I must admit that I did not read that whole thread; just the entry post.

I am not a pro but an enthusiast and as that I have quite a lot of paid assignments every year. I own an M and a Q2. These are wonderful cameras but I do not use them for my "pro" work. For this I use other equipment. The essential thing for me is the performance of the AF. I believe that sensorwise all big brands are on a high level and that new sensors bring only marginal advantages. So I look at AF and how it is implemented. Just an example: At recepions  with lots of people I have rarely people looking directly into the lens. Why: My camera is so fast; it takes me less than a second to frame and release the image. Before people realise that they are photographed the shot is done. And crisp and sharp. This performance is not with SL. You have to go for Canon, Sony or Nikon plus fast lenses. I like to work with 50mm and 135mm on full frame sensor. My tool is the Canon R5.

[Photoworks]

8 hours ago, 6bit said:

I wouldn’t shoot Leica for professional work as you describe due to service time. 
 

I’d shoot Canon or Sony. 

in 4 years I had to send an M lens and a M10-P that I got used and needed to recalibrate the sensor.

considering that my equipment get daily use for professional work, it is going strong.
 

I had more repairs with Sony, some lenses can't even repair and need full replacement. The 90mm is just glued together. Canon 5D's are great and the are work horses. some time assistant drop something and it need repair.

Take care of your equipment and it will last... 
one part of professional is to have always backups to finish the job. that means if you need one camera for the job and a flash, well you bring 2 cameras, 2 lenses, and 2 flashes with battery and card for all of them.

When Nikon came out with the Professional D1x cameras I always had to buy 3 of the same, they would break and the service would take 3 months, even in NY where NPS was an hour drive away. Plus after they fixed it, it has some other problem and had to go back. One Nikon was always in service over the years.

 

So Leica is just fine for professional worker me.

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[6bit]

I’m stating I would not. I’ve shot sports professionally and no one plans for a body or lens going down. When that happens, do you want to have your gear back in a week (Canon) or two (Sony), or three months (Leica)?

 

Everyone must make their own choices. 

[bcapphoto]

On 6/3/2022 at 12:23 PM, hdmesa said:

I'm not sure how you (OP) can read the responses here and not run like hell. You must have made up your mind already before asking, IMO.

 

I was asking more on the technical merit of the system - AF, low-light, etc. As I haven't shot with an SL2-S, I wanted to get input from those who have shot with it to see if feel like it could technically keep up with the pace of a wedding day. 

 

On 6/3/2022 at 12:23 PM, hdmesa said:

If you do go with an SL system, make sure you're not just counting on a single Fujifilm body as backup. That might save you on a single job, but then what is your backup while the Leica gear is out of service for several months while you wait on it to be repaired?

I've got 8 years full-time on Fuji gear. Having it as a backup if I had to send my Leica stuff away isn't the end of the world. As I said - I've shot with it already for 8 years, so it would be totally natural and normal.