Considering switching to the SL2-S/Q2 kit for weddings

[bcapphoto]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hey there 👋

I've been a pro wedding photographer for 15+ years - I have a more timeless approach to wedding photography and like to keep things (gear-wise) simple and quick to work with. For the last 7-8 years, I've been shooting full time with Fuji. My current kit is: 

2 x Fuji X-Pro3
Fuji 18mm f/1.4
Fuji 33mm f/1.4
Fuji 56mm f/1.2
Fuji 60mm f/2.4
Fuji 90mm f/2.0

I shoot with all Godox AD200s when I need them for the reception. 

For most of the wedding day, I'll shoot with 1 X-Pro3 and the 18mm f/1.4 and 1 with the 56mm f/1.2. Sometimes I'll swap the 56mm for the 33mm if it's too tight. I use the 60mm f/1.4 exclusively for detail shots and the 90mm f/2.0 exclusively for reception work where I need a bit more reach. 

Personally, I have shot with the Leica Q for 1+ year and I recently switched that for the Q2M. I also have had the M240 for 2+ years and swapped that for an M10 about 6 months ago. I keep my 50mm Summilux ASPH mounted on that permanently. I also love shooting film on my M6. 

* Sigh * 

That gives you some context and background. 

I love Fuji, don't get me wrong. But I looooooove Leica colours and the shooting experience. 

So I'm thinking of swapping to an SL2-S/Q2 combo for weddings. I'm thinking I'd grab the 75mm Summicron APO on the SL2-S and keep the 28mm on the Q2 for my wide option. Then if/where I want, I'll sub in the M10/50mm Summilux sometimes. 

Problem is? I've never held, shot or used the SL2-S (or any of the SL system) and no one here in Canada rents them. So I'll be buying blind. I'm ok with it - I just want to make sure it's the right move for me. 

I use mostly AF-S or AF-C if there's movement, but never tracking - always single focus point and I move it with the joystick. 

Do you have any recommendations or thoughts? Or what questions might you ask me (if you've shot that combo) to help me decide if it is/isn't the right move for me? 

Appreciate your feedback in advance!

[JimKnopf]

are you a professional photographer and dependent on the equipment?

The crucial question is then, if no one has these devices in your range: where do you get a replacement?

Leica customer service is not comparable to Nikon or Canon. you usually have to wait a long time for repairs.

Read also in particular the software problems through here in forum.
you are probably better served with the new camera generation at Fuji.

[robb]

Bottom line is you need backup bodies in particular with Leica in a time sensitive working environment (like weddings) or keep the Fuji's as backups.  Your backup gear could also be Panasonic or sigma since they are also in the L family.

Leica is great equipment to shoot with.  I love the user interface, focus peaking, especially the viewfinders and also special features that other companies simply don't incorporate into their gear - like multishot.  I am unaware how quickly Fuji can turn around a camera with a malfunction or  needing a repair.  Canon would be 1 week or less.  Similar for NPS.  I think I pay $100 or so a year to get the quick service.  It's worth it.

Leica used to have a pro services Dept but that went away a long time ago.  I still have an original application form... Supposedly, Leica repairs take 3-4 months and they don't prioritize working pros.  Had an M 50 1.4 focussing ring replaced / adjusted and that ran right at 3 months going through my Leica shop and cost about $500...  They just don't have the resources set for a CPS type program.

So I'm just trying to advise that if you shoot Leica, you will need extra bodies or lenses on the side for the just in case moments in life.  In 30 years shooting Canon, I think I had one lens that fell out of focus.  No bodies with any problems.  I'd encourage you to fly down to the states and rent a couple Leica items and test them out in a typical environment with your way of shooting to see if it is a good fit.  If that goes well, I'd recommend you go for it but knowing you'll need more gear to cover all bases.  The one is none and two is one rule applies.

It's nice that the SL2 cameras and Q 2 use the same battery.  So it can be easy to mix and match.  I would not recommend AF-C shooting with the SL2 cameras.  I only use AF-S or manually focus.  If you use back button focus with your cameras, it only works (practically) in AF_S mode with the SL2 when the camera is set to MF mode.  Then the front trigger and rear focus button are not competing with each other.  I'm also a fan of using M glass on the SL2/S.

Anyway.  I love my images with the system and definitely recommend them.  My SL2 and Q gear has been flawless since last August when I started adding.  (knock on wood of course...)

While I am not a wedding shooter, I shoot a lot and understand the demands on the gear for those situations and what I would choose to use.

I'd steer you toward a combo of Leica SL2/s with a 50 1.4 or 75 f 2 and a Q2.  Backup equipment in the car if needed.  You could also add some sigma fast glass if you need longer reach or closer focussing.  But the Q2 can be used closeup also.  I would not shoot the SL2 at iso 3200 or higher.  The SL2-S can go a bit higher.  The weddings I have attended have been fairly dark - like 3200 at 1.4 and 60th.  See what equip makes the most sense for you.  Lot of great choices by many companies today.  

Robb

[beewee]

As much as I love shooting with Leica and I do own a pretty sizable M and SL kit as a hobby, I wouldn’t try to run a business on Leica gear. As Jim mentioned, support is lacking and if anything breaks on you or needs to get sent in for servicing, you will be out that piece of equipment for many months. From a business perspective, if you strip away your emotion and focus on what your customers will be happy with, it makes no sense to shoot with Leica gear. Not in terms of return on investment, and not in terms of reliability, support, and ensuring uptime when things go bad either through sheer bad luck or otherwise. I’d bet money that 99.9% of wedding photography customers just want someone to capture their special moments and they really don’t care whether you have Leica colours, or Fuji colours, or Canikony colours. They want their eyes sharp and compositions aesthetically pleasing. In many ways, Sony/Canon/Nikon/Fuji would all do a better job than Leica, especially in the AF department. On the other hand, if you showed up and your body/lens started giving you trouble, I’d also bet money that your clients would not be pleased that you missed their once in a lifetime moments.

I’m not sure where in Canada you live but there are a few Leica retailers in the big cities where you may be able to handle some bodies. I definitely don’t recommend buying into a system blind if you need to run a business with it. The SL2-S is big. Much bigger than your Fuji kit and all the SL lenses are big. The APO SL primes are spectacular in terms of optics but they are much much bigger than the Fuji APS-C lenses. Everything adds up. You may get use to it, as I have, but it’s still a lot of bulk and weight to be carrying around and shooting long days at a wedding.

Edited May 31, 2022 by beewee

[Chris W]

There are a few wedding photographers shooting the SL system, also with a Q (or Q2) secondary.

Some of them use M mount lenses on the SL (2 or 2s). They are smaller. 

Also, Sigma make fantastic L mount lenses that are affordable and well built.

Is Leica less reliable than Fuji or Sony?

 

[Photoworks]

I am not going to repeat what was said above, just ad to it.

I am a professional photographer and mostly do commercial entertainment shoot and some interiors. But I have do many wedding in the past.

The SL system is slow in AF in dark spaces, it take a long time to find focus, and I usually take two shots of people then refocus and take some more. More often than I want to one set of images are not in focus. another issue I run into when covering events is that the camera found focus just in between 2 people and even refocusing and reframing it hold on to the focus in the back. this is usually during the day.

Lets talk about flash. 
There is only one valid flash for the SL2 and this is the SF-60. an expensive Nissin made flash that is ok, but not great. Old tech, regular battery, slow recharging, overheating, top heavy so that with a diffuser on top like the Fong one the flash keeps flapping down.
In a positive note it is TTL and it can connect external power from godox for quicker charge.

There are no other flash that do TTL or wireless trigger with TTL. If you are use to AD200 you can get a trigger that will work in M mode. I use the AD400 like that all the time, but if you going in and out of from a room lighting to outdoor, TTL is more what you want on the camera.

on a positive note the 75mm is so good on the SL2.
I find the q2 ok for events for a 2nd camera, but the buffer is to slow to shoot all the time with it.

 

There are people that shoot wedding with only M cameras. I suppose it is possible, but you need to be real good at predicting the shots.

As a professional I understood early how to be prepared for any shoot, stuff breaks and fails. I always take extra equipment that will allow me to finish the job. Always two bodies, lenses that cover the focal length , always an extra light then the one I need, always extra cards and batteries.

All that to say that on the last night event I took all my Sony set. was the better choice for the job.

[OR120]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Strictly speaking weddings -  NOW - I have an SL2-S and QP that I use for all my jobs. To me weddings are very different from hard news and event work. Since I've retired from the daily grind I've gone back to Leica. It's what I started with and it's gear that brings me pleasure while I'm shooting. I've had zero problems with either Leica. I agree with the above statements - you do need to have a backup camera with lens, a light or two - just in case - mine is a Sony that sits in the car trunk. This is what works for me. I enjoy the process and the results. If I were you I would borrow or rent the Leica gear in question and test it out - under the same conditions. You probably have a friend who also shoots weddings - Ask your friend if you can be his second shooter. You will provide him with a few outtakes from your LEICA TEST shoot. I would definitely try (under the same conditions) before I buy. Not sure the all Leica path is for everyone but I started my photographic journey with Leica - so now I've come home.

 

[bcapphoto]

12 hours ago, JimKnopf said:

are you a professional photographer and dependent on the equipment?

The crucial question is then, if no one has these devices in your range: where do you get a replacement?

Leica customer service is not comparable to Nikon or Canon. you usually have to wait a long time for repairs.

Read also in particular the software problems through here in forum.
you are probably better served with the new camera generation at Fuji.

I am a professional photographer - yes. Although, I would consider myself partially retired. I founded a software company (a CRM) for photographers (Sprout Studio), and so I spend more of my time and energy running that company and leading our team than I do shooting. Where I once would shoot 30 weddings/year and 100 portraits/year, I'm now shooting closer to 6-7 weddings and 10-15 portraits/year. 

 

Re: repairs - really good point. I honestly hadn't even thought of that. The good thing is that I would keep an X-Pro3 as a backup but also for my macro (60mm f/2.4) and long reception shots (90mm f/2) so I'd have that still. I also have other backup options - my M10, an X70, etc. But still - excellent points! Thanks for sharing!

[bcapphoto]

11 hours ago, robb said:

Bottom line is you need backup bodies in particular with Leica in a time sensitive working environment (like weddings) or keep the Fuji's as backups.  Your backup gear could also be Panasonic or sigma since they are also in the L family.

Leica is great equipment to shoot with.  I love the user interface, focus peaking, especially the viewfinders and also special features that other companies simply don't incorporate into their gear - like multishot.  I am unaware how quickly Fuji can turn around a camera with a malfunction or  needing a repair.  Canon would be 1 week or less.  Similar for NPS.  I think I pay $100 or so a year to get the quick service.  It's worth it.

Leica used to have a pro services Dept but that went away a long time ago.  I still have an original application form... Supposedly, Leica repairs take 3-4 months and they don't prioritize working pros.  Had an M 50 1.4 focussing ring replaced / adjusted and that ran right at 3 months going through my Leica shop and cost about $500...  They just don't have the resources set for a CPS type program.

So I'm just trying to advise that if you shoot Leica, you will need extra bodies or lenses on the side for the just in case moments in life.  In 30 years shooting Canon, I think I had one lens that fell out of focus.  No bodies with any problems.  I'd encourage you to fly down to the states and rent a couple Leica items and test them out in a typical environment with your way of shooting to see if it is a good fit.  If that goes well, I'd recommend you go for it but knowing you'll need more gear to cover all bases.  The one is none and two is one rule applies.

It's nice that the SL2 cameras and Q 2 use the same battery.  So it can be easy to mix and match.  I would not recommend AF-C shooting with the SL2 cameras.  I only use AF-S or manually focus.  If you use back button focus with your cameras, it only works (practically) in AF_S mode with the SL2 when the camera is set to MF mode.  Then the front trigger and rear focus button are not competing with each other.  I'm also a fan of using M glass on the SL2/S.

Anyway.  I love my images with the system and definitely recommend them.  My SL2 and Q gear has been flawless since last August when I started adding.  (knock on wood of course...)

While I am not a wedding shooter, I shoot a lot and understand the demands on the gear for those situations and what I would choose to use.

I'd steer you toward a combo of Leica SL2/s with a 50 1.4 or 75 f 2 and a Q2.  Backup equipment in the car if needed.  You could also add some sigma fast glass if you need longer reach or closer focussing.  But the Q2 can be used closeup also.  I would not shoot the SL2 at iso 3200 or higher.  The SL2-S can go a bit higher.  The weddings I have attended have been fairly dark - like 3200 at 1.4 and 60th.  See what equip makes the most sense for you.  Lot of great choices by many companies today.  

Robb

Thanks for your thorough reply, Robb! I appreciate it! 

 

The plan would be to keep an X-Pro3 as a backup but also for my macro (60mm f/2.4) and long reception shots (90mm f/2) so I'd have that still. I also have other backup options - my M10, an X70, etc. But still - excellent points! Thanks for sharing!

[bcapphoto]

10 hours ago, beewee said:

As much as I love shooting with Leica and I do own a pretty sizable M and SL kit as a hobby, I wouldn’t try to run a business on Leica gear. As Jim mentioned, support is lacking and if anything breaks on you or needs to get sent in for servicing, you will be out that piece of equipment for many months. From a business perspective, if you strip away your emotion and focus on what your customers will be happy with, it makes no sense to shoot with Leica gear. Not in terms of return on investment, and not in terms of reliability, support, and ensuring uptime when things go bad either through sheer bad luck or otherwise. I’d bet money that 99.9% of wedding photography customers just want someone to capture their special moments and they really don’t care whether you have Leica colours, or Fuji colours, or Canikony colours. They want their eyes sharp and compositions aesthetically pleasing. In many ways, Sony/Canon/Nikon/Fuji would all do a better job than Leica, especially in the AF department. On the other hand, if you showed up and your body/lens started giving you trouble, I’d also bet money that your clients would not be pleased that you missed their once in a lifetime moments.

I’m not sure where in Canada you live but there are a few Leica retailers in the big cities where you may be able to handle some bodies. I definitely don’t recommend buying into a system blind if you need to run a business with it. The SL2-S is big. Much bigger than your Fuji kit and all the SL lenses are big. The APO SL primes are spectacular in terms of optics but they are much much bigger than the Fuji APS-C lenses. Everything adds up. You may get use to it, as I have, but it’s still a lot of bulk and weight to be carrying around and shooting long days at a wedding.

Super good points, thanks for sharing! 

 

I mentioned in another reply - I consider myself semi-retired, so I'm certainly not trying to run a full-time, busy wedding season off of Leica.  I founded a software company (a CRM) for photographers (Sprout Studio), and so I spend more of my time and energy running that company and leading our team than I do shooting. Where I once would shoot 30 weddings/year and 100 portraits/year, I'm now shooting closer to 6-7 weddings and 10-15 portraits/year. 

 

I share that to say - I have the luxury of being able to have a - bit - of emotion involved haha. 

[bcapphoto]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I am not going to repeat what was said above, just ad to it.

I am a professional photographer and mostly do commercial entertainment shoot and some interiors. But I have do many wedding in the past.

The SL system is slow in AF in dark spaces, it take a long time to find focus, and I usually take two shots of people then refocus and take some more. More often than I want to one set of images are not in focus. another issue I run into when covering events is that the camera found focus just in between 2 people and even refocusing and reframing it hold on to the focus in the back. this is usually during the day.

Lets talk about flash. 
There is only one valid flash for the SL2 and this is the SF-60. an expensive Nissin made flash that is ok, but not great. Old tech, regular battery, slow recharging, overheating, top heavy so that with a diffuser on top like the Fong one the flash keeps flapping down.
In a positive note it is TTL and it can connect external power from godox for quicker charge.

There are no other flash that do TTL or wireless trigger with TTL. If you are use to AD200 you can get a trigger that will work in M mode. I use the AD400 like that all the time, but if you going in and out of from a room lighting to outdoor, TTL is more what you want on the camera.

on a positive note the 75mm is so good on the SL2.
I find the q2 ok for events for a 2nd camera, but the buffer is to slow to shoot all the time with it.

 

There are people that shoot wedding with only M cameras. I suppose it is possible, but you need to be real good at predicting the shots.

As a professional I understood early how to be prepared for any shoot, stuff breaks and fails. I always take extra equipment that will allow me to finish the job. Always two bodies, lenses that cover the focal length , always an extra light then the one I need, always extra cards and batteries.

All that to say that on the last night event I took all my Sony set. was the better choice for the job.

Thanks for your input - thank you for sharing! 

 

Re: the AF in dark spaces - I'd be keeping an X-Pro3 for reception (indoor, darker) work. So I'm not too worried there. 

Re: flash - I only shoot with manual off-camera flash, so my Godox trigger (and flashes) would work just the same on my Leica as it would on my Fuji. Right?

[bcapphoto]

1 hour ago, OR120 said:

Strictly speaking weddings -  NOW - I have an SL2-S and QP that I use for all my jobs. To me weddings are very different from hard news and event work. Since I've retired from the daily grind I've gone back to Leica. It's what I started with and it's gear that brings me pleasure while I'm shooting. I've had zero problems with either Leica. I agree with the above statements - you do need to have a backup camera with lens, a light or two - just in case - mine is a Sony that sits in the car trunk. This is what works for me. I enjoy the process and the results. If I were you I would borrow or rent the Leica gear in question and test it out - under the same conditions. You probably have a friend who also shoots weddings - Ask your friend if you can be his second shooter. You will provide him with a few outtakes from your LEICA TEST shoot. I would definitely try (under the same conditions) before I buy. Not sure the all Leica path is for everyone but I started my photographic journey with Leica - so now I've come home.

 

Thanks for sharing! I really appreciate you taking the time. 

 

I also consider myself semi-retired and am not booking up full wedding seasons like I once did. So I have the ability to be a bit selective with what I book/shoot. 

[Olaf_ZG]

You have read all the replies, not much to add. I would never solely rely on Leica for weddings, so unless you keep a base kit (at least two bodies) of Fuji aside, don’t do it.

However, if you do, I would rather combine m plus sl rather than q plus sl.

m for the reportage part, sl for party and longshots.

[bcapphoto]

38 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

You have read all the replies, not much to add. I would never solely rely on Leica for weddings, so unless you keep a base kit (at least two bodies) of Fuji aside, don’t do it.

However, if you do, I would rather combine m plus sl rather than q plus sl.

m for the reportage part, sl for party and longshots.

Interesting thought - thanks for sharing! 

 

I'm not sure I could keep up with rangefinder focusing on a wedding day, but hell ... maybe I should try! 

[JimKnopf]

I don't feel that wedding photography is not comparable to news and hard journalism.
Both areas are fast and situations are irretrievable. Your work has to be spot on.
The completely dreamy and relaxed wedding is certainly possible, but my aim is to be in control of every situation. And there is no such thing as control with Leica.
- AF is too slow (especially with the excellent native lenses)
- TTL / HSS flashing in reproducible quality is not easily possible. HSS with an open aperture in sunshine is impossible - because there is no sufficiently powerful and compatible flash system. The most powerful compatible TTL / HSS flash from Nissin ends at around 180Ws.
- Burst mode will be canceled when the battery is below 25%
- Portrait format grip extremely expensive and of poor quality (compared to the camera)
- enormously high battery consumption with accompaniments throughout the day

Leica is a system that does an excellent job under very specific conditions. But the general conditions have to suit you and your work.

[tom0511]

C-AF of SL2-S is slower than something like a Canon R5, but for many things ok IMO. I prefer the SL-system and those great lenses for 80% of my photography, for action and sports I like the Canon AF. How important is this for wedding? I am only a hobby shooter, but I would guess for 99% the AF of the SL2-S to be ok for a wedding.

I have had SL, SL2 and SL2-s and all three have been very reliable over the years. But yes, as a pro I agree a backup is important (no matter which brand you use).

 

[hellobrandonscott]

Wedding photographer here and use two SL2-S's and a Q2. Wrote this since it comes up often, hopefully it helps... https://brandonscottphoto.co/gear/leica-sl2-s-for-wedding-photography/

[bcapphoto]

14 minutes ago, hellobrandonscott said:

Wedding photographer here and use two SL2-S's and a Q2. Wrote this since it comes up often, hopefully it helps... https://brandonscottphoto.co/gear/leica-sl2-s-for-wedding-photography/

Hey dude - super cool. I read your article quite a few times while searching, actually. There isn't a lot written about the SL2-S for wedding photography, so it ranks pretty high up there for SEO stuff. 

 

Are you still happy with the arrangement? 

 

Do any of the comments/thoughts in here re: backup, repairs, etc. worry you? Or what have you done to circumvent them?

[BernardC]

On 5/31/2022 at 12:50 AM, beewee said:

I’d bet money that 99.9% of wedding photography customers just want someone to capture their special moments and they really don’t care whether you have Leica colours, or Fuji colours, or Canikony colours.

That's one key aspect of the wedding market: once you get past the very cheapest options, couples choose their photographer based on look/vision and personal compatibility. The only way to get into the top tier is to have your own look. And work very very hard, of course! Customers don't care about the brand of equipment that you use, but they do notice results.

Using a Leica, or medium format, etc., can set you apart from the majority of shooters who shoot Canon zooms.

 

I seconded at weddings in Canada for years, with top-tier shooters. From their experience and mine, using Leica isn't an issue. The SL bodies are very reliable: more-so than Canon in my experience. Individual experience will vary. Obviously, you need backups for everything, as with any brand. Panasonic and Sigma have some cheaper options, and used SLs are relatively affordable.

Your lens selection matches the SL Apo-Summicron lenses (1.4 in APS-C is similar to 2.0 in full frame): 18-->28, 32-->50, 60-->90. There's no 135 (equivalent to 90 in APS-C) in Leica's range, but there are workarounds for that.

Sigma and Panasonic both offer high-quality primes in L-mount at reasonable prices. You might want to start with Panasonic's 1.8 lineup (24-35-50-85) for instance, or pick a few as backups. Sigma's "contemporary" DG-DN lineup is also affordable and excellent, but it's missing the fast 50 that is essential in wedding work. They offer a 50/1.4 in their Art line.

 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[bcapphoto]

28 minutes ago, BernardC said:

That's one key aspect of the wedding market: once you get past the very cheapest options, couples choose their photographer based on look/vision and personal compatibility. The only way to get into the top tier is to have your own look. And work very very hard, of course! Customers don't care about the brand of equipment that you use, but they do notice results.

 

Yea - I've been in the upper 10% of the market here, locally, for the last ~ 12 years or so, so I definitely echo these thoughts. 

It's not that my clients would say "oh wow - that was make with a Leica!" but quality DOES matter!