MP with on-camera flash

[hirohhhh]

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I'm testing my SF64 flash for the first time on MP (I used it only couple times on my digital cameras).

My flash is set to TTL mode and I set the flash ISO to match the camera ISO, but I'm wondering does the MP light meter takes the flash in consideration? When those arrows in the viewfinder tells me I'm over or underexposed, is it with the flash? Also, does the flash knows my aperture and shutter speed set on the camera?

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[a.noctilux]

I fear that MP is not TTL flash.

Had you read the SF64 user manual ?

 

MP is a copy with hot shoe added of M2/M3/M4 of decades ago ...shutterwise.

So you may learn to use manual or flash "auto" (ahem ...) set the "right" aperture and use the 1/50s "arrow" setting ONLY or slower.

[hirohhhh]

I was actually trying to find it in the MP manual, but it's just one paragraph about the flashes.

Manual flash on film cameras, shooting kids sounds like a nightmare and lot of wasted film

Thanks for the help anyway!

[spydrxx]

3 hours ago, hirohhhh said:

I was actually trying to find it in the MP manual, but it's just one paragraph about the flashes.

Manual flash on film cameras, shooting kids sounds like a nightmare and lot of wasted film

Thanks for the help anyway!

Not a waste at all, and not hard either. If you're using an auto-flash you should be set to go. If you're using a fully manual flash all you need to do if you're directing the flash directly toward the subject is use the dial on the back of most flash units to select your ISO, which you should have already done, and note and dial in the aperture for the subject-flash distance. I found when shooting manual flash of my daughter as a toddler years ago to use bounce flash. I basically preset my focus distance on my lens, mentally computed the flash-ceiling-subject distance and added about 1 stop. With everything preset I was ready to go...just moved in or out fo focus...flash was basically preset as was focusing...got great shots for several years.

[hirohhhh]

5 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

Not a waste at all, and not hard either. If you're using an auto-flash you should be set to go. If you're using a fully manual flash all you need to do if you're directing the flash directly toward the subject is use the dial on the back of most flash units to select your ISO, which you should have already done, and note and dial in the aperture for the subject-flash distance. I found when shooting manual flash of my daughter as a toddler years ago to use bounce flash. I basically preset my focus distance on my lens, mentally computed the flash-ceiling-subject distance and added about 1 stop. With everything preset I was ready to go...just moved in or out fo focus...flash was basically preset as was focusing...got great shots for several years.

I'll have to practice with my digital camera first, setting the flash in manual mode. I used this flash couple times in TTL mode on SL an M10 cameras, and it does everything automatically. I don't have to think about apertures and shutter speeds and compensations. Yeah, I bounced it off the ceiling and walls, and the exposures are good, but the aesthetic of the flash is not my cup of tea. I'd rather have a bit of grain than clean photos with on-camera flash.

But now when I'm shooting with film camera, I found it more than often need for flash, because shooting at 200 ISO film, afternoon or evening inside the house, it must go as low as 1/8s or lower, wide open, which is impossible to have decently steady photos, especially of constantly moving kids.

[a.noctilux]

I don't use flash anymore on my Ms.

Out of curiosity, I dowloaded the SF58 manual.

I don(t know if SF64 is the same

This flash can be used  on your MP,  of course ...but needing to put in "SET" some parameters in manual ISO/Aperture/Focal.

Page 54 ; SF58

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Edited May 27, 2022 by a.noctilux

[hirohhhh]

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13 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

I don't use flash anymore on my Ms.

Out of curiosity, I dowloaded the SF58 manual.

I don(t know if SF64 is the same

This flash can be used  on your MP,  of course ...but needing to put in "SET" some parameters in manual ISO/Aperture/Focal.

Page 54 ; SF58

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Yes, that's in the same menu where I set the ISO. But every time I change it, I have to change it in the flash too. Well, not perfect, but not that bad either.

Edited May 27, 2022 by hirohhhh

[a.noctilux]

Just try it (at1/50 shutter ! ) on one film then you will know if it works.

I think it will 😉

[hirohhhh]

I just tested it with M10-R, so I have live preview of what's going on. It works great, although I still prefer TTL  (less work, and things to think about, so more shooting, less fiddling with the flash menus)

- I set flash in M mode
- ISO 100 on both flash and camera
- F11 on both flash and camera
- ZOOM (focal length of the lens used) set to 50 on flash

The only thing that confuses me is the P (partial light output). There are values from 1/1 (1.8m) to 1/256 (0.5m). When I set closest to the real distance from the subject, it gets dark. If I set it to the maximum output 1/1, it seems right.

In the flash manual, it says: "When cameras and a lens with CPU are used, there is a range indicator in the display. For this, data must have been exchanged between the camera and flash unit, e.g. by touching the camera shutter release. The range can be displayed in meters (m) or feet (ft)"

On my flash the range is always 12mm, no matter what I set. So I think my flash and camera doesn't exchange this information.

If that's the case, I'll keep practicing on digital camera, before I become comfortable shooting on film with flash.

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by hirohhhh

[Danner]

Not sure about what SF64 will do when set to TTL and mounted on a non-TTL camera.  The MP is definitely a non-TTL camera, which means it will not send a flash-quench signal to the flash, and so that MP will not control flash exposure, nor metering at all.

I assume that SF64 can shoot in an auto-flash mode, where it uses its internal light sensor to determine when to quench the flash.

[hepcat]

2 hours ago, hirohhhh said:

But now when I'm shooting with film camera, I found it more than often need for flash, because shooting at 200 ISO film, afternoon or evening inside the house, it must go as low as 1/8s or lower, wide open, which is impossible to have decently steady photos, especially of constantly moving kids.

Welcome to the world those of us who have been shooting film for over fifty years live in!     

Spyderxx gave you the best advice I have.  You know all of the parameters, and your hyperfocal distance. Preset the flash, aperture, and focus and shoot away.  You really don't NEED AF-follow-focus or TTL flash.   You just need confidence in your skills and know your equipment.  I still shoot with Vivitar 285 HVs on all my cameras but my Panny S1.  I did break down and buy an Olympus FL 50R for it just for convenience.

[hirohhhh]

28 minutes ago, Danner said:

Not sure about what SF64 will do when set to TTL and mounted on a non-TTL camera.  The MP is definitely a non-TTL camera, which means it will not send a flash-quench signal to the flash, and so that MP will not control flash exposure, nor metering at all.

I assume that SF64 can shoot in an auto-flash mode, where it uses its internal light sensor to determine when to quench the flash.

Yes, there is Auto mode, but I wouldn’t rely on it. I’d either shoot TTL or completely manual.

[charlesphoto99]

I wouldn't reject A mode out of hand. Some flash/camera combos it can work quite well. I made many thousands of photos using the Vivitar 285HV in Auto and a Nikon F,  though mostly with the off camera cable that allows the A sensor to remain on the hot shoe. You're lucky now with having a digital body to com pare and test - back when it was film only it was 'trial by fire.' 

I was surprised talking to a Getty celebrity grip and grin photog a few years back that he used Manual flash with his latest greatest digital Nikon. He said it was about being in control - if a mistake is made it's his, not the flashes. I now use a Profoto A1X with the wireless hockey puck in manual mode on my M10. Works great. Even more important imo than what mode to use, is getting the flash off the camera. Unfortunately Leica has never allowed for this, but you can use aftermarket wireless devices or the Nikon flash cable. The built in wireless of the Profoto is a revelation, and really fun to work with, no cables holding one back on flash positioning or to get tangled up with. 

[Danner]

3 hours ago, hirohhhh said:

Yes, there is Auto mode, but I wouldn’t rely on it. I’d either shoot TTL or completely manual.

Unpossible for the MP and SF64, together, to shoot TTL flash.

[hirohhhh]

3 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

I wouldn't reject A mode out of hand. Some flash/camera combos it can work quite well. I made many thousands of photos using the Vivitar 285HV in Auto and a Nikon F,  though mostly with the off camera cable that allows the A sensor to remain on the hot shoe. You're lucky now with having a digital body to com pare and test - back when it was film only it was 'trial by fire.' 

I was surprised talking to a Getty celebrity grip and grin photog a few years back that he used Manual flash with his latest greatest digital Nikon. He said it was about being in control - if a mistake is made it's his, not the flashes. I now use a Profoto A1X with the wireless hockey puck in manual mode on my M10. Works great. Even more important imo than what mode to use, is getting the flash off the camera. Unfortunately Leica has never allowed for this, but you can use aftermarket wireless devices or the Nikon flash cable. The built in wireless of the Profoto is a revelation, and really fun to work with, no cables holding one back on flash positioning or to get tangled up with. 

I'll have to explore Auto mode more. I just test it and the photos turned out very dark, comparing to the TTL.

I have Profoto Air Remote that I used before with my B1Xs for studio portraiture. I don't do that anymore, but I still have the kit. So maybe I shoud consider Profoto flash instead Leica.

Does anyone know if SF20 also won't work with Profoto Air Remote? SF20 should have wireless transmission.

[hirohhhh]

19 minutes ago, Danner said:

Unpossible for the MP and SF64, together, to shoot TTL flash.

Yes, I know. I was referring TTL in general, not only MP.