No more circuit boards in Wetzlar to repair the M6 Classic

[Capuccino-Muffin]

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21 hours ago, Matlock said:

In spite of one person's constant posts, the early MPs are exactly the same as the late ones, only the door is different.

No.

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[Capuccino-Muffin]

21 hours ago, Matlock said:

In spite of one person's constant posts, the early MPs are exactly the same as the late ones, only the door is different.

You’re 12 years late. You weren’t present in the forum in 2003 when the MP came out, when all the discussions took place. 

For your information: the m6 door is only compatible with the M6 circuit board. A M6 door on a latter MP just will not Work, it will not meter Correctly. This is a fact from the real world, the one you seem to ignore.

 

 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

23 hours ago, stray cat said:

Despite all the moaning and hand-wringing about potential circuit board failures, what happens if they do fail? You're still left with a perfectly usable camera (M6, M6TTL, MP) albeit one without metering. So you are no worse off than if you had bought an M2, M4 or whatever. I really can't see the big deal to be honest.

 

The M6 is a downgraded and economical variant to the much better M2/3/4. 

Without its meter, the M6 becomes a Zinc M camera. Not in the same class.

[stray cat]

12 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The M6 is a downgraded and economical variant to the much better M2/3/4. 

Without its meter, the M6 becomes a Zinc M camera. Not in the same class.

You have strong opinions for a muffin.

[wattsy]

1 hour ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

For your information: the m6 door is only compatible with the M6 circuit board. A M6 door on a latter MP just will not Work, it will not meter Correctly. This is a fact from the real world, the one you seem to ignore.

Maybe but the point being argued concerns an MP door that happens to use an M6 style ISO selector. Are you saying that the early MP doors with the M6 style sector are functionally exactly the same as a door off of an M6?

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, stray cat said:

You have strong opinions for a muffin.

The name says it all 🙂 

[Matlock]

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1 hour ago, wattsy said:

Maybe but the point being argued concerns an MP door that happens to use an M6 style ISO selector. Are you saying that the early MP doors with the M6 style sector are functionally exactly the same as a door off of an M6?

Exactly, but he does not seem to be able to grasp that fact.

[aesop]

29 minutes ago, wattsy said:

Maybe but the point being argued concerns an MP door that happens to use an M6 style ISO selector. Are you saying that the early MP doors with the M6 style sector are functionally exactly the same as a door off of an M6?

 

     ...I can confirm ownership of two MPs with the so-called M6-style door, purchased brand new from B&H NY in 2005 and 2007 (2983XXX and 3003XXX). Re: functional similarities with an M6? Well, for starters, unlike the M6, both MPs have four LEDs. Go figure.😬

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, aesop said:

...I can confirm ownership of two MPs with the so-called M6-style door, purchased brand new from B&H NY in 2005 and 2007 (2983XXX and 3003XXX). 

Interesting, that's the first time I hear of M6-style doors on MPs with such late serial numbers.I have documented quite a few of these cameras and so far the latest serial number I have seen is 289xxxx. My earliest MP is 288xxxx and already has the newer ISO dial. I wonder how these M6-style doors were distributed during MP production. 

[250swb]

2 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

You’re 12 years late. You weren’t present in the forum in 2003 when the MP came out, when all the discussions took place. 

For your information: the m6 door is only compatible with the M6 circuit board. A M6 door on a latter MP just will not Work, it will not meter Correctly. This is a fact from the real world, the one you seem to ignore.

 

 

I'll cross post from a necro thread I just replied to for your information because it concerns the meter in the M6 and MP (both early and late)

'The EV range of the M6 (the one where you can't get the meter repaired) is EV0 to EV20, and it uses two triangles in the display. When the M6TTL (the one that can still be repaired) was introduced the EV went up to EV-2 to EV20 and the display uses two triangles and a dot between them. So it's not even the same metering circuit between the M6 and M6TTL. The early MP, according to my manual has an EV range of EV-2 to EV20, so the same as the TTL, plus the same display. This is the same as Leica's published data (2006) for the MP after they changed the dial from the M6 style of dial. So when the camera repairer says the meter for the M6 can't be repaired they literally mean the M6, not M6TTL or MP early dial or MP late dial. '

 

[aesop]

 

        ...just so we we are clear, I checked the literature that came with both MPs (2005 and 2007), and can confirm that in both cases "EV-2 to EV20" applies. Ditto "two triangles and a dot between them".

[Guest]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb 250swb:

… putting the battery in the baseplate of a film M would be a nightmare with all the extra light seals necessary to change the battery if you were halfway through a film! Have you even half thought through what you just said?

Yes, I did.
People buying a brand new MP today can afford the expenses of half a film wasted.
In the rarest occurrence of stop-function of the light meter, because the battery’s empty without a warning.

Leica is today the only manufacturer of analog camera bodies. 
Buying a new MP today is maybe ALSO buying a tool imo.

All literature and journalism has been written without a Mont Blanc Ernest Hemingway or Thomas Mann Edition.

To dis the owners of these marvellous fountain pens as bling-loving is a big mistake.

There are people who can afford to purchase works of art in the shape of luxury articles, in this case not as a unique painting or manuscript nor as a NFT,

but as a small series from the world’s best manufacturers: be it cars, watches, exquisite wines etc.

Improving quality paired with a feeling of reverence for our culture makes the (already stratospheric) price a good starting point.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Apochromat

[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

'The EV range of the M6 (the one where you can't get the meter repaired) is EV0 to EV20, and it uses two triangles in the display. When the M6TTL (the one that can still be repaired) was introduced the EV went up to EV-2 to EV20 and the display uses two triangles and a dot between them.

According to DAG, the main circuit board is available for neither the Classic nor the TTL (and supplies of the TTL board ran out first):

https://www.dagcamera.com/store/p166/Leica_M6-_Classic-_No_More_Main_Circuit_Boards.html

Whether an individual camera with an electronic fault can be repaired currently depends on the exact fault - e.g., the TTL apparently has two relevant circuit boards, and of course there may be problems that can be fixed without replacing an entire board. From an article by TTL fan Johnny Martyr:

'For a more qualified answer to this rumor, I asked Don Goldberg, aka DAG for his opinion.  First of all, he clarified that there are two circuit boards associated with the light meter in the M6 TTL so it’s pure silliness when people say “the board” is prone to failure.  And he went on to say “I’ve had 2 Leica M6-TTL cameras in so far that needed new main circuit boards. That’s out of 489 M6-TTL cameras that I’ve had in for repair.”  This as as of July 2019.  And those two board replacements?  “One of the circuit boards that was bad was due to someone removing the body shell without first removing parts that got in the way of the main board & damaged the board. The other one I think was defective & had to go to Leica, USA. All in all the M6-TTL is very reliable. I think the reason I’ve had 489 M6-TTL cameras in my shop is that they sold lots of them, people want complete overhauls eventually.”'

https://johnnymartyr.wordpress.com/tag/leica-m6-ttl/

DAG doesn't say anything here about the relative failure rate or availability of the other TTL board, or whether the Classic is more or less reliable. But clearly there are some problems with both the TTL and the Classic, however uncommon, that can't currently be fixed. Hopefully Alan Starkie or another talented technician will change that (see above).

[grahamc]

9 hours ago, Anbaric said:

And before anyone asks, it looks like he may also be interested in doing this for the TTL:

'My approach is this, re-design the whole thing and remanufacture them. I'm already working on this. I might also think about the TTL version too and include adjustment pots like the M6, avoiding the need to hook the camera up to a Leica computer just for adjustment.'

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/node/4782210?p=4785021#post4785021

 

Gosh that’s lucky , I was thinking I’d bought a pair of lemons, again 😂

[earleygallery]

On 5/22/2022 at 11:28 PM, Yachtbuoy said:

Ouch! Definitely feel a bit more vindicated going with an all-mechanical Leica as there's no circuit board to fail!

An M6 or M6TTL is still a fully mechanical camera, a broken circuit board means no more TTL metering but everything else will still function as before.

[Anbaric]

4 hours ago, earleygallery said:

An M6 or M6TTL is still a fully mechanical camera, a broken circuit board means no more TTL metering but everything else will still function as before.

Not quite everything - the M6-TTL would behave like it does if you take the batteries out, which means no flash sync at all.

[TomB_tx]

11 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Not quite everything - the M6-TTL would behave like it does if you take the batteries out, which means no flash sync at all.

That wouldn't bother some of us: I've been using M cameras since 1968 and never used flash on any of them.

[madNbad]

One of the things I enjoy in this and other forums as how the original post takes a wandering path far from it's original intent. Here we start with the simple premise of the announcement Leica has discontinued electronic parts for a camera they introduced to the public in 1984 and discontinued in 1996. Most of the members are in agreement that it may never be a problem. If the meter malfunctions or is no longer viable, the owner is still left with a useable camera, not to mention that a company willing to continue support a product for a quarter century after the last one rolled off the line is rare.   Somewhere along the line the the classic zinc versus brass controversy has appeared, as it does in many threads and if the M6 TTL backdoors were in use on the then new MP. Viable discussions for their own threads. Maybe I'm wandering too but I am trying to stay on track with the original poster.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[colint544]

This thread is wild.

[Matlock]

9 hours ago, colint544 said:

This thread is wild.

The way I look at it is this, I have a M6TTL, MP,  M7,  M5 and CL none of which have had any metering problems, I also have a Rollei 35 from 1966 which is, again, functioning correctly. I am 77 next birthday so I am pretty sure all these cameras will still be working OK by the time my circuit board expires.

Time to pick up one of these (or maybe my M10-D) and go out and take some photos. A radical thought I know but someone has to do it. 🙂