SL 16-35 or 24-90 or 24-70 for diving

[abukij]

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Hi! I need help... I am planning to bring an sl2 underwater and I need help to choose the lens. I do freediving, which  means I need something quite fast in terms of autofocus, I am not getting so close to the subject and I don't have a lot of time; at the moment I am using the Leica XU (23mm).

Said so, can you please help me to decide which lens to choose? and what about the Sigma L mount?? 

 

My XU album on fickr

Edited May 12, 2022 by abukij

[jaapv]

I would go for the 16-35 for the focal length What underwater housing will you use? There are expert members here who can help you   The Sogma lenses are close to Leica in quality. 

[abukij]

Hi, I didn't have the time to edit my post and I would likt to add:

1-the 24-90 is the onlyone with the image stabilization

2-the 24-70 is constant the others are variable aperture

3-considering 30'' max for shooting time,  the low light conditions and the unpredictable movement of the subject, do you think I will be able to use something more than the 35mm?

4-the 24-70 is the cheapest of the group

I found only the subal camera housing for the SL2, do you know other brands?

[abukij]

47 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I would go for the 16-35 for the focal length What underwater housing will you use? There are expert members here who can help you   The Sogma lenses are close to Leica in quality. 

I would love to speak with somebody about this uw issues!! hehe 

do still suggest the 16-35 after my additional considerations?

 

[beewee]

What focal length are you wanting to shoot? The 16-35 SL is very good from 24-35mm but is slower than the 24-70 and 24-90. The 16-35 SL from 16-24 needs to be stopped down to around f/5.6-f/8 to get good corner sharpness. If corner sharpness is not important, than maybe that’s not a big deal.

If you need to shoot wide open at 24mm or wider, I would go with Sigma. The Sigma 14-24/2.8 DG DN is very good wide open, better than the 16-35 SL wide open between 16-24mm and would allow you to go ultra wide. If you are happy with 24mm but want something faster, there’s the Sigma 24 f/2 DG DN which is also very good.

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, abukij said:

Hi, I didn't have the time to edit my post and I would likt to add:

1-the 24-90 is the onlyone with the image stabilization

2-the 24-70 is constant the others are variable aperture

3-considering 30'' max for shooting time,  the low light conditions and the unpredictable movement of the subject, do you think I will be able to use something more than the 35mm?

4-the 24-70 is the cheapest of the group

I found only the subal camera housing for the SL2, do you know other brands?

I am far from an expert and can only be described as a dabbler -  I find EWA-Marine flexible housings very practical for amateur use and affordable.
As for focal lengths, consider that immersing a lens in water works like a 1.4x extender (approx.).  So to get the FOV of a 35 mm lens you will need a 21 mm one. and 70 mm will bring you close to 105 mm. Add to that that the opacity of water and water movement distortion will demand that you shoot close to very close, longer zooms are rather useless, except in specialist situations. 
As for  exposure, to overcome the spectral shift of light in water (you lose the reds pretty quickly as you descend) you should be using flash for decent results unless you are very shallow and then lens speed is not an issue(and again be pretty close up to avoid reflections from particles in the water) Not much to add by OIS/IBIS for such use. And it won't stabilize subject movement anyway.
A 16 mm is more useful than a 50 in those circumstances...

[tom0511]

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I assume you will also use flash or light?

what do you want to shoot? wracks? big fish? macro?

do you want a lens which can do it all but is not specialist?

do you know how big a housing for FF and 16-35 is?

I shoot FF and medium format on land, but for underwater I prefer m43. smaller, more DOF, good AF.

if you say you need something with fast AF and for free diving...I think SL2+big lens will be too big. rather go for something more compact.

[Jeff S]

A used Leica X-U will cost a fraction of the zooms, and require no housing, if you can live with the the fixed focal length and other specs.

Jeff

[tom0511]

I think the x-u is too slow focusing for real underwater photography.

 

[jaapv]

9 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

A used Leica X-U will cost a fraction of the zooms, and require no housing, if you can live with the the fixed focal length and other specs.

Jeff

The OP is trying to upgrade from an X-U

[jaapv]

29 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

I assume you will also use flash or light?

what do you want to shoot? wracks? big fish? macro?

do you want a lens which can do it all but is not specialist?

do you know how big a housing for FF and 16-35 is?

I shoot FF and medium format on land, but for underwater I prefer m43. smaller, more DOF, good AF.

if you say you need something with fast AF and for free diving...I think SL2+big lens will be too big. rather go for something more compact.

A GH-6 in an IKElite housing is a fantastic combination.

[abukij]

13 hours ago, jaapv said:

I am far from an expert and can only be described as a dabbler -  I find EWA-Marine flexible housings very practical for amateur use and affordable.
As for focal lengths, consider that immersing a lens in water works like a 1.4x extender (approx.).  So to get the FOV of a 35 mm lens you will need a 21 mm one. and 70 mm will bring you close to 105 mm. Add to that that the opacity of water and water movement distortion will demand that you shoot close to very close, longer zooms are rather useless, except in specialist situations. 
As for  exposure, to overcome the spectral shift of light in water (you lose the reds pretty quickly as you descend) you should be using flash for decent results unless you are very shallow and then lens speed is not an issue(and again be pretty close up to avoid reflections from particles in the water) Not much to add by OIS/IBIS for such use. And it won't stabilize subject movement anyway.
A 16 mm is more useful than a 50 in those circumstances...

1-thanks for your reply, of course the 16-35 sound like the winner. but now a new door is opening: 16-35 or 35 prime lens?

2-ewa-marine is too floppy, If your dive is -10m -15m you need your camera ready and easy to use, I already know that I will get nervous not  finding the proper command inside the bag! I remember I found a super stylish camera housing made in carbon fiber, but I lost the link and so far the subal housing is the onlyone I found for the sl2.

3-as you understood I am looking for an upgrade of the XU and I need an equipment really responsive and easy to use; with my XU between -13 -5 m I use a max iso 800 and the results are good, I am expecting to be more relaxed with the sl2 at 1200-2000 iso

Edited May 13, 2022 by abukij

[jaapv]

Prime 35 is 50 mm equivalent. It might be on the long side. 

[LeicaR10]

Abukij,  I sent you a PM to help you.  I did not wish to derail the thread with my lengthy explanation of underwater optical physics, color filtration without strobes, lenses and UW housings. r/ Mark

[jaapv]

I would be interested We don’t limit ourselves to simplistic posts ( like mine) on this forum  

[abukij]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Prime 35 is 50 mm equivalent. It might be on the long side. 

after many considerations I believe I have thre choices:

1- Leica sl 16-35 mm F3.5/4.5

2-SIGMA 18-50mm F2.8 DC DN

 3-SIGMA 14-24mm F2.8 DG DN

4-LUMIX S PRO R1635 16-35mm F4

Nr 4 is the wise choice, I never used less than F4 in my pictures, I wonder if with the SL2 and the sigma lens I will be able to manage this F 2.8 after all the considerations.

What do you think?

[Gyoddn]

Hello. I think I can be a help to a certain degree.

I’m using SL2-S (and previously SL2) for shooting mainly whales, dolphins, and freedivers with the 16-35 SVE and the Easydive UW housing. You can check my photos on instagram @gyoddn and @ai3529 who is my UW model. (Pls be careful since some of our posts were taken with Sony or Canon. See tags.) I feel my focus area is different from yours but I can talk my experience on my gears.

-Housing

As far as I know at least four UW housing makers offer the housing for SL2 and SL2-S. Aquatech, Subal, BS Kinestics, and Easydive. I don’t know about Aquatech. But I have tried the rest of them and actually none of them can “physically” handle with SL’s unique thumbwheel. It must be gently spun without being pushed but it seems difficult. With Subal and BSK housing I ended up changing P-A-S-M when trying to change aperture, this is fatal. Only with the Easydive, I can use (almost) full functions of SL2(S) since it “electrically” handle with SL2(S) via USB-C PTP connection. But you should keep in mind that you cannot use full SL2’s functions via Easydive. For instance you cannot go into a menu screen. You can check what kind of functions you can control on Easydive’s web site.

-Lens

I have used 16-35 SVE and 24-90 VE. I don’t feel any frustration regarding the autofocus on both lenses since I’m wide shooter.

To me, the most important thing on UW camera is dynamic range. How much can I recover the true color behind a sea blue? How much can I keep the detail in dark area and highlight, these are important for me (Should I try medium format?). And I’m satisfied with my SL2-S and 16-35 SVE. I sometimes use Sony a7S iii and Canon R5. Both are monsters but I still love my SL2-S and it’s brilliant images the most.

Hope this can be your reference.

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[Pelu2010]

5 hours ago, Gyoddn said:

Hello. I think I can be a help to a certain degree.

I’m using SL2-S (and previously SL2) for shooting mainly whales, dolphins, and freedivers with the 16-35 SVE and the Easydive UW housing. You can check my photos on instagram @gyoddn and @ai3529 who is my UW model. (Pls be careful since some of our posts were taken with Sony or Canon. See tags.) I feel my focus area is different from yours but I can talk my experience on my gears.

-Housing

As far as I know at least four UW housing makers offer the housing for SL2 and SL2-S. Aquatech, Subal, BS Kinestics, and Easydive. I don’t know about Aquatech. But I have tried the rest of them and actually none of them can “physically” handle with SL’s unique thumbwheel. It must be gently spun without being pushed but it seems difficult. With Subal and BSK housing I ended up changing P-A-S-M when trying to change aperture, this is fatal. Only with the Easydive, I can use (almost) full functions of SL2(S) since it “electrically” handle with SL2(S) via USB-C PTP connection. But you should keep in mind that you cannot use full SL2’s functions via Easydive. For instance you cannot go into a menu screen. You can check what kind of functions you can control on Easydive’s web site.

-Lens

I have used 16-35 SVE and 24-90 VE. I don’t feel any frustration regarding the autofocus on both lenses since I’m wide shooter.

To me, the most important thing on UW camera is dynamic range. How much can I recover the true color behind a sea blue? How much can I keep the detail in dark area and highlight, these are important for me (Should I try medium format?). And I’m satisfied with my SL2-S and 16-35 SVE. I sometimes use Sony a7S iii and Canon R5. Both are monsters but I still love my SL2-S and it’s brilliant images the most.

Hope this can be your reference.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Hi very nice picture !
And do you use a dome for the lens? 

cheers 

[Gavin Cato]

Goodness you guys are brave taking Leica gear underwater. I used to have a completely separate underwater rig when I last dived

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Gyoddn]

4 hours ago, Pelu2010 said:

Hi very nice picture !
And do you use a dome for the lens? 

cheers 

Thank you.

Yes, I use 170Ø dome. But I still have some distortion on the edge.