Shutter Dials - the right side?

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

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What is your preference?

Having come from the digital era M9, I’m used to the dial from the slowest turning to the fastest speeds

For metered bodies, it’s a align the triangles/dot mechanism game so this isn’t as confusing to me 

For non Metered bodies, it’s a chore to remember to turn the dial the opposite direction 

How do you deal with it? Just got used to the different bodies and different characteristics? 

 

 

 

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Edited April 28, 2022 by TheGodParticle/Hari

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[250swb]

I think you normally get used to it if you use the cameras often enough. It's just an instinct, like knowing which way a Nikon focus ring turns (the opposite way to Leica) when you pick that camera up. But yes, my longest conversion to a new design was with the M6 TTL, not because of the direction the dial turned compared with an M6, but the size of the dial. I think perhaps it becomes more difficult again if the camera has an Auto setting so many times you don't have to touch it at all.

[davidmknoble]

@TheGodParticle/Hari It is an interesting problem, but yes as @250swb says, you have to use it and get used to it.  Honestly, I use film differently than digital. Black and white film still seems more forgiving (I develop my own) and I meter for light around me (shadow, sunlight area, etc.) and so I simply adjust my shutter speed back and forth depending on where I am taking photos.  With digital I may constantly tweak the shutter speed, but then again it is typically a 1/2 or 1 stop adjustment.  I also shoot digital faster and film slower, giving me time to change with the light.  My M3 and MP have exactly the same layout, so shooting film is the same across bodies.  I think the M6 TTL with the large dial is the only ‘backwards’ dial.  If you really want it the same, consider using that body?

[Matlock]

22 minutes ago, davidmknoble said:

   I think the M6 TTL with the large dial is the only ‘backwards’ dial.  If you really want it the same, consider using that body?

The M7 is the same, for obvious reasons.

[davidmknoble]

8 minutes ago, Matlock said:

The M7 is the same, for obvious reasons.

What is the obvious reason ?

[Stuart Richardson]

It came after the M6TTL? Also that it has aperture priority? But I wouldn't say those are obvious, so much as logical.

I agree, you mostly get used to it. But I tend to mostly use aperture priority for the digital bodies, or if I would be shooting more slowly, I would typically change the dial while looking at it. I guess it was something that never seemed to trip me up too much. With the film bodies I typically choose a shutter speed for the conditions and adjust the aperture for the minor lighting changes. Maybe that is an adaptation to it?

[Matlock]

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23 minutes ago, davidmknoble said:

What is the obvious reason ?

The direction matches the arrows in the viewfinder.. As Stuart says, logical rather than obvious would be a better description.

[Anbaric]

I wonder exactly why they changed this? Some people claim the M6 Classic dial is 'backwards' relative to the exposure indicators, and this was 'fixed' in the TTL. But if you think of the M6 dial as a thumbwheel (which is quite natural, because you are probably rotating it between your finger and thumb) and consider you are moving the back of the dial in the direction of the arrow, it make perfect sense. Perhaps when they made the dial larger in the TTL, making it easier to rotate with just one finger, it was now considered more natural to visualise how the front of the dial was moving, hence the change?

[Danner]

52 minutes ago, Matlock said:

The direction matches the arrows in the viewfinder.. As Stuart says, logical rather than obvious would be a better description.

But that depends on your point of reference.  For the M6 (and earlier bodies), the dial direction matches the meter arrow if you think of the dial surface closest to you. Very logical.

[wizard]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb Anbaric:

Perhaps when they made the dial larger in the TTL, making it easier to rotate with just one finger, it was now considered more natural to visualise how the front of the dial was moving, hence the change?

I think you nailed it. I even seem to remember that Leica themselves have provided explanations to that end, but can't remember where, as it was obviously a long time ago. Perhaps in some of their product brochures on the M6TTL.

[TomB_tx]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

With the film bodies I typically choose a shutter speed for the conditions and adjust the aperture for the minor lighting changes. Maybe that is an adaptation to it?

That has been my normal way of working since the 1960s: set the shutter speed for the conditions, and "tune" the exposure by the aperture. Back with ltm era bodies that was natural. as changing shutter speed meant lifting the dial and looking at it to select the speed and make sure it "clicked" down at that setting. Much quicker just to adjust the lens. Back then your eye was the meter...

Of course that was before the modern trend to shoot wide open and concern for bokeh (which we never heard of back then).

[Matlock]

11 minutes ago, Danner said:

But that depends on your point of reference.  For the M6 (and earlier bodies), the dial direction matches the meter arrow if you think of the dial surface closest to you. Very logical.

With the M6TTL, M7 and all Digital Ms it is natural to rotate the dial with your finger on the front of the dial. With the smaller dial of all previous Ms (excluding the M5) finger and thumb would seem to be logical. Different horses for different courses.

[Stuart Richardson]

There may have been an effort at harmonization as well, as the dial direction has always been the "new" way in the Leica R series. As well as in most other cameras that I am aware of...the Nikon went the other way, but they dropped the dial when the cameras got more electronic. Canon is in the new Leica way, as is Mamiya. Both of them use the same aperture dial configuration as well, while Nikon (which took it from Contax I believe) chose to do both the shutter speed and aperture the opposite direction.

[spydrxx]

IMHO it all boils down to muscle memory...so either use it or lose it. I've had over 15 camera brands, film and digital, and found that before going out it is worthwhile to look at the shutter direction and remember it.

[davidmknoble]

5 hours ago, Matlock said:

The direction matches the arrows in the viewfinder.. As Stuart says, logical rather than obvious would be a better description.

Thanks, that makes more sense.  So the M7 mirrors the M6 TTL in terms of shutter direction, and the MP (which I have) mirros the M3, M2, M4, M6.  And then the digital cameras all mirror the "logical" direction, with some (SL and S) allowing either direction chosen in software.

Does make switching more difficult, but then I've too always asked who designed the touch tone phone number pad, because 10-keys were made while phones were still round dials, and it is tough going between a 10key and a phone all day long with reverse number pad.

[grahamc]

I initially bought a M6 TTL over MP because it “matched” the M10 I owned, so I thought it would be easier to switch between cameras. 
 

Having since also bought an M6 (J) and MP , (both with the “other” type of shutter dial) I now realise I shouldn’t have worried - you quickly get used to both and instinctively use the correct direction for whichever you have in your hand. 
 

I find the exception can be the first frame when switching cameras, you might momentarily turn the dial the incorrect way. But other than that it’s really not a problem. 
 

FWIW the other thing I worried about was whether the classic direction / SS dial size would be more difficult to use with the camera placed to the eye, and using one’s forefinger.  In my experience , they aren’t.   Both sizes can easily be used this way. 
 

My conclusion was that the size / direction is a non issue after a bit of time with the cameras. In fact nice to use different ways for a change.
 

The TTL does share the “centre dot” meter reading of the M10’s of course, which would be a bigger reason to choose it if that was someone’s preference.  M6 has the 2 arrows only and I’m not sure about MP - the fact u can’t remember though shows it’s never bothered me I think

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by grahamc

[pippy]

11 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

..I typically choose a shutter speed for the conditions and adjust the aperture for the minor lighting changes...

Interesting. Shooting digitally I always set aperture first because, usually, D-o-F is my first concern and will then fine-tune shutter-speed accordingly as I'm rarely shooting anything which requires an 'arrested speed' setting.

With my M2 I always check, visually, when I set both aperture and speed so the different orientation between film and digi-M isn't an issue. With the digi-bodies I adjust the speed-dial from the front with the tip of my index-finger so the exposure LEDs, for me, do indicate in a logical way.

Philip.