Service time Wetzlar

[Huss]

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Problem is the R8/9 have become very fringe cameras.  Most people have not heard of them.  Most will just assume if they are broken, that is it because no-one can service them.

Because that dood stockpiled the parts!  It is bizarre and in a way sad, because they are fantastic cameras.

[davidmknoble]

I find it interesting that the timeframe for repair is still such a discussion.  We all want things quickly (I am also in this camp), but at the same time consider this:

1950’s Leica cameras are still being repaired by Leica (M2, M3) and the same with lenses.  Each year Leica issues hundreds of thousands of new cameras and lenses, and still services them along with old M’s.  The repair field keeps growing.

Just curious the last time anyone was able to take even a 1980’s automobile to the manufacturer to get fixed?

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to have a faster turn around time - I have a six month wait time to get a hasselblad film body and some lenses CLA’d and I’d love to have them now.  I think that quite honestly, the people with knowledge within Leica to repair the oldest of equipment to their exacting standards is much less than it was even a decade or two ago.

I don’t think it will get faster, in fact, I think it will get slower, but I think it is just a fact of life, regardless.  You can get faster service on mechanical cameras, but with third parties, not with Leica.

Of course, I could just be wrong.  Just thinking outside the box.

[sdw]

I just wanted to chime in here, because data points matter. 

I had hoped that bringing my camera and lenses in for service would be alright, as people say bringing them to Leica is faster in terms of turnaround time.

I've previously waited 18 months for a Wide Angle Tri Elmar repair.

My lenses - one a minor adjustment - have now been gone for 3+ months with the estimate being 2 weeks. Zero word, no replies to emails.

The M6 I turned in should've taken 2 months; same story. Some people say Leica now quotes an 8 month repair turnaround time for film Ms.

It's a great company with fantastic products but it is still beyond me how they botch service like this. At least communicate with your costumers! I figured I'd share this here in case you're on the fence on getting your items serviced at Leica - what an absolute disgrace. 

[CSG123]

53 minutes ago, sdw said:

I just wanted to chime in here, because data points matter. 

I had hoped that bringing my camera and lenses in for service would be alright, as people say bringing them to Leica is faster in terms of turnaround time.

I've previously waited 18 months for a Wide Angle Tri Elmar repair.

My lenses - one a minor adjustment - have now been gone for 3+ months with the estimate being 2 weeks. Zero word, no replies to emails.

The M6 I turned in should've taken 2 months; same story. Some people say Leica now quotes an 8 month repair turnaround time for film Ms.

It's a great company with fantastic products but it is still beyond me how they botch service like this. At least communicate with your costumers! I figured I'd share this here in case you're on the fence on getting your items serviced at Leica - what an absolute disgrace. 

I'd disagree that it's still a great company.  Their binoculars are a mess as well looking at the Binocular forum on birdforum.net.  But I do love my '67 M4!

[LocalHero1953]

It's a free market. With so many entitled wealthy Leica owners out there, why haven't others stepped in to fill the gap? One new kid on the block in the UK who has generated a heap of bad publicity, leaving a couple of recognised repairers for older Leicas (with exceptionally long lead times). In the USA one hears only about Dan Goldberg, Sherry Krauter and Youxin Ye (with occasional grumbles about the latter).

[Huss]

On 7/28/2023 at 12:35 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

It's a free market. With so many entitled wealthy Leica owners out there, why haven't others stepped in to fill the gap? One new kid on the block in the UK who has generated a heap of bad publicity, leaving a couple of recognised repairers for older Leicas (with exceptionally long lead times). In the USA one hears only about Dan Goldberg, Sherry Krauter and Youxin Ye (with occasional grumbles about the latter).

Sherry Krauter bolloxed my M5.  And refused to discuss bolloxing thereof.  DAG had to fix her work so…

[IkarusJohn]

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On 7/16/2023 at 6:49 AM, Huss said:

Your excuse falls apart because Nikon, Canon, Sony etc do not have the same problem.   Unique to Leica.

And by the way, this isn't new.  Leica has been this bad since I bought my M9 (M-E) new which took them months to repair.  That was way before the current economic situation.

Leica doesn't care.  If they did, they would hire and train people. In the US as well as other countries.  Why is it that all the other mfgs are able to, but for Leica it somehow is a mystery?  because they don't care because they have convinced some in their base that it is acceptable.

I think you need to factor in a massive cultural difference between California and Germany - not defending, just pointing out that Leica does care, they just have a different way of showing it.  Also, I sense that in California (the rest of the US?), the customer is king; in Germany, historically, the customer is told to shut up and wait in line 😋

I jest, but try flying Air NZ from Auckland to LA, then United to NY, followed by Lufthansa to Frankfurt.  My experience, being a New Zealander, Air NZ understands my needs, and I understand how they will meet them; coming from a different culture, United takes my money, utters a lot of empty, polite and meaningless platitudes without actually meeting my needs (I missed a flight in their queue); and the immaculate Lufthansa stewardess wasn’t interested in any request I might make - her attitude, sit down, shut up and we’ll arrive in Frankfurt when we get there, delivered in perfect English with a lovely smile.

We got there on time.

Edit - I’ve had my fair share of wait times with Leica (with shpping times added), but on the plus side, the local Leica dealers have lent me users while I wait (an SL and a Monochrom).

Conversely, I’ve just had what appears to be a metastatic melanoma removed from my foot.  The first specialist referral (back in May) couldn’t see me til next year, the second said December.  The lump was growing and starting to hurt.  I managed to get into a specialist who removed it last week - the tissue from the biopsy taken back in June is still with the pathologist.  I’m waiting to see if I have a more significant issue (further surgery? Chemo? Keytrude?).

I will welcome my M10-D, Monochrom, 50 Summilux ASPH and 35 Summilux pre-asph like old friends when they come back!

Edited July 29, 2023 by IkarusJohn

[ymc226]

On 7/17/2023 at 8:51 AM, KlarNebel said:

In addition to people retiring, the problem is that even if they train new people it is not certain that they stay with Leica. The job they officially train people for is a mix of mechanical and electronic engineering in practice. Those who complete the three years of training are highly sought after in Germany. Companies like Mercedes, Volkswagen and other manufacturers are trying their hardest to get people like that. And trust me, they can pay way better than Leica can. (Even though it is a luxury brand.)

And that is a fact that has been around for at least ten years. Not a new problem.

Are seven month unacceptable? Sure. Can you get your old Nikon F2 still serviced by Nikon? No.
You are angry and I understand that. But it is not just down to Leica. They would have had to hire people to sit around all day doing nothing back in the late 2000s, just so they would have the staff they need today. They didn't.

Retaining high skill employees for a long time has become a big problem in Germany.

When there was a tariff applied to German made lenses, Leica was able to shift production to Portugal, resulting in less expensive lenses quite quickly if I remember correctly.  I did actually buy a made in Portugal reissue 28 Summaron.  I was just thinking, if the culture to retain trained technicians is so hard in Germany, why not consider some other EU nation?  Surely, no one would be against repairs not done in Germany?  Parts could be sent in days from Germany if needed and eventually fully stocked in the repair country to minimize delays.  Technicians working in Leica's Portugal factory churning out M lenses would surely have the skills to effect repairs as well;  just need the appropriate training.

[Huss]

19 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

..

Conversely, I’ve just had what appears to be a metastatic melanoma removed from my foot.  The first specialist referral (back in May) couldn’t see me til next year, the second said December.  The lump was growing and starting to hurt.  I managed to get into a specialist who removed it last week - the tissue from the biopsy taken back in June is still with the pathologist.  I’m waiting to see if I have a more significant issue (further surgery? Chemo? Keytrude?).

..

Forget the camera nonsense, that is terrible that you'd be told to wait on that.  If you were in LA we'd take care of you STAT.  I work for a major cancer treatment and research hospital and we do NOT tell people they are going to wait. WTF.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

Forget the camera nonsense, that is terrible that you'd be told to wait on that.  If you were in LA we'd take care of you STAT.  I work for a major cancer treatment and research hospital and we do NOT tell people they are going to wait. WTF.

Post covid, we’ve had a flood of specialists leaving the country for work overseas.  It’s a crisis.

[jaapv]

20 hours ago, ymc226 said:

When there was a tariff applied to German made lenses, Leica was able to shift production to Portugal, resulting in less expensive lenses quite quickly if I remember correctly.  I did actually buy a made in Portugal reissue 28 Summaron.  I was just thinking, if the culture to retain trained technicians is so hard in Germany, why not consider some other EU nation?  Surely, no one would be against repairs not done in Germany?  Parts could be sent in days from Germany if needed and eventually fully stocked in the repair country to minimize delays.  Technicians working in Leica's Portugal factory churning out M lenses would surely have the skills to effect repairs as well;  just need the appropriate training.

The problem is EU-wide. And it is not just camera technicians. I need a house painter. "I'll book you in for halfway 2025, Sir"...

[jaapv]

21 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Conversely, I’ve just had what appears to be a metastatic melanoma removed from my foot.  The first specialist referral (back in May) couldn’t see me til next year, the second said December.  The lump was growing and starting to hurt.  I managed to get into a specialist who removed it last week - the tissue from the biopsy taken back in June is still with the pathologist.  I’m waiting to see if I have a more significant issue (further surgery? Chemo? Keytrude?).

Sorry to hear that, John. My best wishes and hopes for a speedy positive outcome!

[Ivar B]

I have sent items directly to Leica over a long period. Service has always been top, but now something has happened. They don`t reply to e-mails at all and there is no way of knowing how long a repair will take. I sent an APO-M 75mm about a month ago, and courier tracking states that the parcel is ready for collection and this has been so for 3 weeks. Tracking is not always correct and I hope they have collected the parcel, but 3 emails over 3 weeks are all unanswered. 

[romualdo]

On 7/30/2023 at 8:17 AM, IkarusJohn said:

Conversely, I’ve just had what appears to be a metastatic melanoma removed from my foot.  The first specialist referral (back in May) couldn’t see me til next year, the second said December.  The lump was growing and starting to hurt.  I managed to get into a specialist who removed it last week - the tissue from the biopsy taken back in June is still with the pathologist.  I’m waiting to see if I have a more significant issue (further surgery? Chemo? Keytrude?).

All the best John, hopefully they'll find clean margins once they do the histopathology of the removed mass - BTW, we in Australia have the highest rate of melanomas in the world (not a very nice claim to fame). Are you having any imaging done (CT, MRI, PET?) seeing they have mentioned "metastatic"?

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, romualdo said:

All the best John, hopefully they'll find clean margins once they do the histopathology of the removed mass - BTW, we in Australia have the highest rate of melanomas in the world (not a very nice claim to fame). Are you having any imaging done (CT, MRI, PET?) seeing they have mentioned "metastatic"?

Nothing arranged yet, but I will be asking for a full body PET scan.

[Helge]

Am 20.7.2023 um 19:27 schrieb Huss:

Completely false.

They provide limited service to M7, M6 TTL.

And do not service M5 or any R series.

This is pretty simple, there are no electronic spare parts anymore for the R cameras, probably the same for M5.

Any stock will be gone at a certain point in time…

[Helge]

Am 25.7.2023 um 02:04 schrieb Huss:

Wasn't there a rumour that one establishment bought out all the R8/9 spare parts from Leica, and are just sitting on them?  As in they refuse to sell any to whoever needs something?

There is a company still doing some limited service for R8/R9 (Paepke). However electronic parts not produced anymore will not be available or are already not available anymore.

[BradS]

21 minutes ago, Helge said:

This is pretty simple, there are no electronic spare parts anymore for the R cameras, probably the same for M5.

Any stock will be gone at a certain point in time…

 

Parts is parts. No matter if electronic or mechanical. Once they're gone, repair tends to be infeasible.

[logan2z]

29 minutes ago, BradS said:

 

Parts is parts. No matter if electronic or mechanical. Once they're gone, repair tends to be infeasible.

When the new M6 was released there were several interviews with Leica's head of Global Marketing in which he said that Leica would manufacture one-off parts as needed to repair older film cameras.  Of course he didn't talk about the cost or the time required to do so, but hearing that they could/would do it was at least somewhat encouraging.  My understanding was that this was pretty much restricted to mechanical parts.  So it could be the case that when existing part stocks are depleted some mechanical parts could still be manufactured and used for repair purposes.

Edited August 2, 2023 by logan2z

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[BradS]

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

When the new M6 was released there were several interviews with Leica's head of Global Marketing in which he said that Leica would manufacture one-off parts as needed to repair older film cameras.  Of course he didn't talk about the cost or the time required to do so, but hearing that they could/would do it was at least somewhat encouraging.  My interpretation (although I could be wrong) was that this was pretty much restricted to mechanical parts.  So it could be the case that when existing part stocks are depleted some mechanical parts could still be manufactured and used for repair purposes.

Yes, I remember seeing that. It was a marketing guy talking about what can be done....like something from a dream.

Of course, the same is true for electronic parts. Replacements can be made, it just isn't (usually) considered feasible to do so...and most folks with the skill and background to do it can't be bothered to even consider the task.

Consider the avionics in the B-52 bombers....a small company in Pleasanton made a lot of money (and got itself acquired by Boeing) designing and building bug-compatible replacement electronics for the B-52's using modern components. It's all about economics.

Given Leica's history, making replacement mechanical parts may be more feasible for them to do than for them to make replacement electronic parts though.

Edited August 2, 2023 by BradS