I’ve now had 3 x sl2 bodies fail.

[Bruno F.]

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17 minutes ago, Geoff C. Bassett said:

Personally never had an issue with the SL2 or SL2-s since I've owned them for about 3 years.  Every other system I have, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, have all locked up or required a battery pull at some point. Never Leica for me. 

My SL 601 have locked up a couple of times. But after I turned it of and pulled at the battery it was working again. This happened a few time with my Nikons too. Never with Sony.

[VespertineD2K]

8 minutes ago, Bruno F. said:

I understand your point, but the truth is that we don't know the rate this is happening. Not much people are using the system, and fewer are active online in forums and such, maybe it have happened more that we are aware of and people have resolved the issue with Leica directly or the seller they did buy from. The fact is we don't know, that's my point. One thing I can say: the Gavin experience may be bad lucky, but it is a headache and terrifying for someone who is working professionally. 3 of 4 bodies failling, come on… 😕

I tend to agree with this, if Leica's support for these cameras is falling so far behind - then ultimately there has to be a reason for it, shipping a camera to Germany and back isn't that lengthy of a process in itself. 

That said, I did receive my SL2s body back with a very thorough repair, at no cost - outside of its warranty, so I'm very grateful in that regard and can't fault the repair I received, other than the amount of time it took. 

Edited January 5, 2024 by VespertineD2K

[Bruno F.]

36 minutes ago, VespertineD2K said:

I tend to agree with this, if Leica's support for these cameras is falling so far behind - then ultimately there has to be a reason for it, shipping a camera to Germany and back isn't that lengthy of a process in itself. 

That said, I did receive my SL2s body back with a very thorough repair, at no cost - outside of its warranty, so I'm very grateful in that regard and can't fault the repair I received, other than the amount of time it took. 

Mind sharing what was the problem with your SL2-S?

[VespertineD2K]

8 minutes ago, Bruno F. said:

Mind sharing what was the problem with your SL2-S?

Same as OP, although in my case it was two bodies which failed in quick succession, not three. 

Edited January 5, 2024 by VespertineD2K

[BernardC]

As a general note, the best way to maximize reliability is to have two different cameras, instead of two copies of the same camera. This will keep you going even if you run into a rare fault caused by environmental conditions.

I've mentioned before the story of a professional who had camera failure after a flight on a propeller plane. Part of the shutter mechanism shook itself apart, probably because it had a resonance frequency close to that of the airplane. An unrelated story I heard from a car tech was about a car model that would stall when stopped near a local building. This was caused by electromagnetic interference. There was a "quiet recall" and TSB; local dealerships added EMF shielding to affected models as they came in for regular service, and the fault was fixed on the production line.

These types of faults are extremely rare. It's unlikely that different camera models will experience the same rare fault at the same time.

I'm not saying that this is what happened to the original poster, but the SL2 is very reliable overall (as we saw from the survey thread). His SL2 bodies were presumably subjected to the same environment, so a common fault can't be ruled-out.

In our case, we could carry Leica and Sony systems (if that's what you have), but you'll get the same safety margin with two different SL models, or with an SL and a Panasonic.

The same strategy works for lenses, of course, but most professionals already carry multiple lenses.

 

[Bruno F.]

2 hours ago, VespertineD2K said:

Same as OP, although in my case it was two bodies which failed in quick succession, not three. 

😳

[Bruno F.]

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27 minutes ago, BernardC said:

As a general note, the best way to maximize reliability is to have two different cameras, instead of two copies of the same camera. This will keep you going even if you run into a rare fault caused by environmental conditions.

I've mentioned before the story of a professional who had camera failure after a flight on a propeller plane. Part of the shutter mechanism shook itself apart, probably because it had a resonance frequency close to that of the airplane. An unrelated story I heard from a car tech was about a car model that would stall when stopped near a local building. This was caused by electromagnetic interference. There was a "quiet recall" and TSB; local dealerships added EMF shielding to affected models as they came in for regular service, and the fault was fixed on the production line.

These types of faults are extremely rare. It's unlikely that different camera models will experience the same rare fault at the same time.

I'm not saying that this is what happened to the original poster, but the SL2 is very reliable overall (as we saw from the survey thread). His SL2 bodies were presumably subjected to the same environment, so a common fault can't be ruled-out.

In our case, we could carry Leica and Sony systems (if that's what you have), but you'll get the same safety margin with two different SL models, or with an SL and a Panasonic.

The same strategy works for lenses, of course, but most professionals already carry multiple lenses.

 

I'm not a longtime professional photographer (10 years of experience), but honestly this is not what I see in practice. People keep backups of the same camera and lenses. Sometimes same brand, but different model if there is a known issue with one of the models. Either way, both SL2 and SL2-S have presented the same issue with OP, that doesn't look normal to me and I truly believe the problem it is not on the user ends or environment in this case. Leica must have had some problem with a batch of their SL2 cameras that are not public, or maybe some design/production flaw we are not aware of.

Edited January 5, 2024 by Bruno F.

[Stuart Richardson]

Just don't get it. If you are worried, it is not worth it, as you are likely to continue to be worried. You are also comparing one of the world's biggest electronics companies with a small German company that makes niche products. Given the size of the company, the number of different models and lenses they offer is pretty impressive. They make everything from point and shoots to high end fixed lens cameras to film cameras to a rangefinder system, a full mirroless system and up until recently an APS-C system and a medium format system. They also make sport optics and are involved in outsourcing their tech to projector companies, phone companies, and lifestyle brands like watches etc. It seems to me they have bit off more than they can chew...I think that is why they formally discontinued the APS line and S line. They may bring the latter back as a mirrorless, but if that is the case it is sure to be sharing most of the tech with the SL line.

So here we have this small company doing all this. And their customer base is spread over the entire world, featuring some professionals, but mostly wealthy amateurs. Unfortunately the film era Leica idea was that it was a good idea to send your camera in regularly for a check and adjustment, so Leica still gets people sending them stuff for repair from decades old cameras, which simply is not an issue for the other brands. In many cases there is absolutely no need for this, and it is just some paranoid new buyer who got a used camera and sends it in before even using it. On top of this, most of their customers are extremely picky, perhaps rightly so, as they payed a lot, but nonetheless, they want everything to be just perfect. Most people with a Sony camera a few years old that breaks just uses it as an excuse to buy a new one. The long and short of it is that Leica is a company that is not very big, but they have a massive range of cameras going back decades that they are expected to take care of from all around the world, generally in most markets there are not enough users around to set up a local service center, so most has to go back to the factory. Their biggest mistake is not hiring more service and tech people, instead of doing things that distract from their core focus, like projectors and watches etc (though presumably they are not the biggest service issue). We can lament this and hope they fix it, but given the last twenty years it does not seem like it is getting any better. So your decision is basically: Do I want to use the camera and lenses enough that I can live with that? For you it sounds like it is probably not a good risk. Not for Gavin either. For me the trade-off is worth it, but I don't have a bride freaking out at me if my camera breaks. Generally my clients have a longer time scale, and if they don't I have other cameras as back up that I can use. The ability to have all the rest of my work done on the SL2 and APO Summicrons etc outweighs that risk in my equation. But if you are a photographer that does a lot of event work or time sensitive work, a company with a robust local professional service is a better bet for you, even if it may not be as enjoyable to use or as nice in its results. Most clients tend not to see the difference anyway, unless you are doing very high end work or art...even then it is unlikely assuming you use the appropriate non-Leica gear.

Edited January 5, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[Bruno F.]

10 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Just don't get it. If you are worried, it is not worth it, as you are likely to continue to be worried. You are also comparing one of the world's biggest electronics companies with a small German company that makes niche products. Given the size of the company, the number of different models and lenses they offer is pretty impressive. They make everything from point and shoots to high end fixed lens cameras to film cameras to a rangefinder system, a full mirroless system and up until recently an APS-C system and a medium format system. They also make sport optics and are involved in outsourcing their tech to projector companies, phone companies, and lifestyle brands like watches etc. It seems to me they have bit off more than they can chew...I think that is why they formally discontinued the APS line and S line. They may bring the latter back as a mirrorless, but if that is the case it is sure to be sharing most of the tech with the SL line.

So here we have this small company doing all this. And their customer base is spread over the entire world, featuring some professionals, but mostly wealthy amateurs. Unfortunately the film era Leica idea was that it was a good idea to send your camera in regularly for a check and adjustment, so Leica still gets people sending them stuff for repair from decades old cameras, which simply is not an issue for the other brands. In many cases there is absolutely no need for this, and it is just some paranoid new buyer who got a used camera and sends it in before even using it. On top of this, most of their customers are extremely picky, perhaps rightly so, as they payed a lot, but nonetheless, they want everything to be just perfect. Most people with a Sony camera a few years old that breaks just uses it as an excuse to buy a new one. The long and short of it is that Leica is a company that is not very big, but they have a massive range of cameras going back decades that they are expected to take care of from all around the world, generally in most markets there are not enough users around to set up a local service center, so most has to go back to the factory. Their biggest mistake is not hiring more service and tech people, instead of doing things that distract from their core focus, like projectors and watches etc (though presumably they are not the biggest service issue). We can lament this and hope they fix it, but given the last twenty years it does not seem like it is getting any better. So your decision is basically: Do I want to use the camera and lenses enough that I can live with that? For you it sounds like it is probably not a good risk. Not for Gavin either. For me the trade-off is worth it, but I don't have a bride freaking out at me if my camera breaks. Generally my clients have a longer time scale, and if they don't have other cameras as back up that I can use.

I understand all of what you said, but I really think you are missing the point. I won't waste hours arguing with you about it, not worth it for both of us.

Edit: It's really odd how I see the exactly same behavior with other brands users — even Canon, Nikon, Sony and Apple as an example. I've been an Apple user for more than 25 years and every time (every time) I have some criticism, I'm attacked personally. Sony, the same. I remember recently when I said their menu system was lacking in a number of ways, and people attacked me like I had accept it for what it is (ironically Sony have updated their menu system since). I'm just sharing my point of view, and also curious about the issues that have had happened with other people. They are marketing the SL system to another user base (and I think they are doing amazing, it's a breath of fresh air TBH), but it is a competitive niche. I think it will get better, but let not ignore the problems and just think it is normal. I don't think it is.

Edited January 5, 2024 by Bruno F.

[BernardC]

50 minutes ago, Bruno F. said:

honestly this is not what I see in practice. People keep backups of the same camera and lenses. Sometimes same brand, but different model if there is a known issue with one of the models. Either way, both SL2 and SL2-S have presented the same issue with OP, that doesn't look normal to me and I truly believe the problem it is not on the user ends or environment in this case.

What I typically see is two different models from the same brand, but rarely the same model. The usual pattern in my market is that professionals will buy a new model, keep the current model as a backup, and sell their previous backup which is now two generations old.

Less-established shooters might have one "pro" model and one "advanced amateur" model, or even one full-frame and one APS-C from the same brand.

I think we've only heard from SL2 users with this rare problem, not SL2-S, but I won't read back a dozen pages to confirm.

In the end, as Stuart wrote, you should use what you are comfortable with. It takes a long time to fully trust any gear. I've been lucky with Leica over hundreds of shoots, but I kept my old Canon system in the trunk of the car for the first few years. I never needed it, but it meant that I didn't have to worry about equipment failures.

[Bruno F.]

11 minutes ago, BernardC said:

What I typically see is two different models from the same brand, but rarely the same model. The usual pattern in my market is that professionals will buy a new model, keep the current model as a backup, and sell their previous backup which is now two generations old.

Yes, I think I'm wrong on this. It is more like these scenarios you said.

 

12 minutes ago, BernardC said:

I think we've only heard from SL2 users with this rare problem, not SL2-S, but I won't read back a dozen pages to confirm.

Two SL2 and one SL2-S.

 

12 minutes ago, BernardC said:

In the end, as Stuart wrote, you should use what you are comfortable with. It takes a long time to fully trust any gear. I've been lucky with Leica over hundreds of shoots, but I kept my old Canon system in the trunk of the car for the first few years. I never needed it, but it meant that I didn't have to worry about equipment failures.

Stuart was kind on the defensive side, but I get what your saying and totally agree with you.

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, Bruno F. said:

I understand all of what you said, but I really think you are missing the point. I won't waste hours arguing with you about it, not worth it for both of us.

Edit: It's really odd how I see the exactly same behavior with other brands users — even Canon, Nikon, Sony and Apple as an example. I've been an Apple user for more than 25 years and every time (every time) I have some criticism, I'm attacked personally. Sony, the same. I remember recently when I said their menu system was lacking in a number of ways, and people attacked me like I had accept it for what it is (ironically Sony have updated their menu system since). I'm just sharing my point of view, and also curious about the issues that have had happened with other people. They are marketing the SL system to another user base (and I think they are doing amazing, it's a breath of fresh air TBH), but it is a competitive niche. I think it will get better, but let not ignore the problems and just think it is normal. I don't think it is.

??? Who is attacking you personally? All I see is people offering you sound practical advice!

[Stuart Richardson]

I hope you did not take what I was saying as a personal attack, that was not my intention at all. I hope you have all the success with whatever system you choose, and I also hope that Leica fixes any deficiencies their cameras have. Just because I have not had problems does not mean they do not exist. I was just trying to offer my honest advice.

[Bruno F.]

8 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I hope you did not take what I was saying as a personal attack, that was not my intention at all. I hope you have all the success with whatever system you choose, and I also hope that Leica fixes any deficiencies their cameras have. Just because I have not had problems does not mean they do not exist. I was just trying to offer my honest advice.

OK, thanks!

[hamey]

On 6/25/2022 at 10:55 AM, hamey said:

Hello Gav.

I think you did the right thing, ten years ago. I stopped buying Leica's after using them for over 40 years. still have a few but they are only to fondle with.

Considering what we pay to buy Leicas in Australia it's ridicules and their service is 2nd rate.

Currently now I am using Fuji gear, and I love e'm, they have never failed me except the crappy lens hoods but what I paid for this gear is amazing.

My XT-1, XT-2, AND my XH-1, with their battery packs plus 18-55, 16-55 2.8,  50-140 2.8, 10-24 f4, 35mmf2  the total cost for all this gear was still under The price for one SL-2 and SL-R adapter and my Fuji gear was all NEW when I bought them, all MADE IN JAPAN.

Hoping to add the new Fuji XH-2 to my collection if I like it.

Now if I lived in Monte Carlo instead of Melbourne then I would probably buy another Leica  just to pose around the casinos, this is the perfect place for Leicas.  (lol)

Good Luck with your new gear.

Hello Bruno F.

Since I made this comment, I have had a change of heart, I went down town and in the Leica Store they had the SL2-S Reportage in the window and naturally I had to 

have a look at it, my body started shaking, I immediately called my dear wife of my problem and she knew the cure, the store manager give me a very good deal

Just couldn't resist.

Three months later I bought another SL2-S ( black version) I simply love them, after 10 years my emotion has been aroused for Leica cameras one's again

It reminded me when I bought my first Leicaflex SL back in 1973, I still have it.

Yes Leicas can sometimes frustrate you, they certainly do to me, I have used  Minoltas, Canons, Nikons, and Fuji's but nothing stare's the passion like a Leica.

Yes my other cameras have been wonderful, but my Leicas are in my heart till the end.

Cheers. Ken.

[Gavin Cato]

Oh yeah, I loved the cameras when I used them - specifically the lenses.

I'm very happy for those who had better luck than me. I still get messages on my website/instagram about other people getting the error so I'm quite sure it's more widespread than the forum poll shows.

[Planetwide]

On 1/5/2024 at 11:58 AM, BernardC said:

What I typically see is two different models from the same brand, but rarely the same model. The usual pattern in my market is that professionals will buy a new model, keep the current model as a backup, and sell their previous backup which is now two generations old.

This is typically what I do. Although, I am currently down to just my SL2 in L Mount - I am sure that you can guess why. In Canon, I have a R3 & R5 in use.

Edited January 7, 2024 by Planetwide

[Sylavin]

On 4/12/2022 at 10:36 PM, Photoworks said:

just on FB

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The same for me, SL2-s bought two years ago...

 

[twistoflime]

In September 2022 I upgraded my SL 601 to an SL2. The camera has worked flawlessly until today when I engaged the mechanical shutter for a timed shot. I was unable to see through the EVF and a red "System Failure" message popped up. This seemed strange since 98% of the time I only use electronic shutter mode.

What did I do?

1) made sure the firmware for the camera/lens was up to date

2) removed the battery, reinserted it, tried a different battery

3) tried several other SD cards

4) powered on/off

5) reset the camera settings

6) switched from mechanical back to electronic when I could access the menus. This alone didn't guarantee that the mechanical shutter blades would open and allow electronic mode.

7) removed the lens, used a different lens, powered on/off

Occasionally a random combination of 1-6 would put the camera back in electronic shutter mode and then the camera worked fine. Switching back to mechanical mode resulted in "System Failure" once again. At times, even when it was in mechanical mode I could navigate the menus, but could only see black through the EVF. At other times, I was unable to pull up the menus.

Like others, I'm a bit perplexed at the mechanical shutter failure given that 98% of my shots are in electronic shutter mode. 

Sending the SL2 in for repair and hoping the fix is better than the original.

 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Snuff]

The other day I ordered a used SL2-S from a local store. When I got it I inserted the memory card and turned on the camera, the viewfinder showed a message "System Error". At the same time, the shutter curtains did not cover the sensor. I returned this camera to the store and ordered a brand new one.