- Telyt 180 APO 3.4 vs Elmarit 180 2.8 (non-apo)

[Jox]

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Hello,
I am interested in the 180 R and more precisely in 2 versions:
- Telyt 180 APO 3.4
- Elmarit 180 2.8 (non-apo)
For frequent use with a doubler, which model would make it possible to obtain the best renderings and the finest details with an M10?
Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences.
best regards,

[a.noctilux]

Apo-Telyt-R 3.4/180 of course, and Apo-Extender-R x2 if to be used as hand-holdable 6.8/360mm (better using monopod 😉 or tripod).

I used for many years the 2.8/180 (non apo) not bad, but using with extender ( I used x1.4 when I had 2.8/280) was not very good even closing to F/8 .

[Stef63]

59 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Apo-Telyt-R 3.4/180 of course, and Apo-Extender-R x2 if to be used as hand-holdable 6.8/360mm (better using monopod 😉 or tripod).

I used for many years the 2.8/180 (non apo) not bad, but using with extender ( I used x1.4 when I had 2.8/280) was not very good even closing to F/8 .

Indeed.  Apo-Telyt-R 3.4/180 of course !

But if the purpose is to always or most of the time use a x2 extender then there are better options (albeit more expensive).  F6.8 minimum on a non-IBIS and not so brilliant in high ISO camera needs a lot of light or indeed like you said a tripod or monopod. 

[davidmknoble]

Note the APO 180 3.4 is best at infinity. It was made for the military to take images for recon. Take a look at Flickr or something for sample shots. Great lens, if you are going to use it as intended…

[Jox]

Thank you very much for these very interesting assessments on the qualities of the APO F3.4 ... I am in contact with a seller of a model marked "made in Canada". Is this a quality problem for this type of lens?

[a.noctilux]

44 minutes ago, Jox said:

Thank you very much for these very interesting assessments on the qualities of the APO F3.4 ... I am in contact with a seller of a model marked "made in Canada". Is this a quality problem for this type of lens?

This Apo 180mm lens was created in Canada by ELCAN, so I know only these with marqued "Made in Canada".

If it was marked "Wetzlar" or "Made in Germany", something might be wrong 🙃.

I used this apo at close distance ( with rings or macro-adapter ) I've not noticed less quality in the range of 1m, so this lens can be used (for me) closer than claimed/limited mfd 2.5m.

Maybe I  don't have military's need of high resolution ?

 

...

If the most advanced lens is needed, I'd take the one without hesitation not cheap, rare and so wonderfully good IQ,

Apo-Telyt-R 4/280mm and I can use my Apo-Extender-R x1.4 and x2 on it even with the two stacked 280x1.4x2 = 784mm equivalent and always "apo" 😄

combo close focus to 1.7m is something to experiment.

Edited April 3, 2022 by a.noctilux

[Jox]

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Yes, the 280 F4 APO (x2 or more), of course 

[davidmknoble]

@Jox made in Canada is not a problem for Leica lenses.  Some of the best Leica lenses in history were made in Canada.  Sometimes a lens has only a few made in Germany late in production, and those are worth more because they are rare.  The Leica M Summilux 75mm was made in Canada except for a few in Germany.  It was designed by Walter Mandler…. 

[Peter Zapp]

I own the 180/3.4 since 20 years, but last year couldn't resist to buy a non-Apo 180/2.8 (2nd, smaller version, focusses to 1.8m), too.

If you don't bother the bulk, the drop in sharpness and resolution in the corners, consider a 400/6.8. Only one lens group as against four (180/3.4) and five (2x Apo Extender), i.e. it's at least a quarter f-stop faster.

[Ornello]

7 minutes ago, Peter Zapp said:

I own the 180/3.4 since 20 years, but last year couldn't resist to buy a non-Apo 180/2.8 (2nd, smaller version, focusses to 1.8m), too.

If you don't bother the bulk, the drop in sharpness and resolution in the corners, consider a 400/6.8. Only one lens group as against four (180/3.4) and five (2x Apo Extender), i.e. it's at least a quarter f-stop faster.

The 350mm f/4.8 is great!

[LeicaRFan]

Here are two examples with SL2 with 3,4/180 + APO 2x Ext., light cropped.

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[davidmknoble]

A little off-topic, but this is with the Leica R APO 70-180 f/2.8, at 180, which is a hair softer than the 100mm. While the MTF's are not as sharp as the primes, it is an internal focus zoom which is also nice. Taken with an R8 and Kodak TriX at 400, in Ilford DDX. Click for full size.

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[Ornello]

I owned the 180 3.4 APO-Telyt for a short time, didn't like it at all. I then bought the f/4 (Elmar) and liked it. I now own the second-version Elmarit and love it! It's hardly bigger than the Elmar!

[wizard]

Am 3.4.2022 um 10:40 schrieb Jox:

Is this a quality problem for this type of lens?

Jesus, no! In fact, to the best of my knowledge, all 3.4/180 APO lenses were manufactured in Canada.

[beewee]

I can’t speak for the non-APO 180 Elmarit R but the 180/3.4 APO-Telyt is stunningly sharp at long distances.

It has very good microcontrast out to the corners on the SL2-S.

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[otto.f]

On 4/2/2022 at 8:50 PM, a.noctilux said:

Apo-Telyt-R 3.4/180 of course, and Apo-Extender-R x2 if to be used as hand-holdable 6.8/360mm (better using monopod 😉 or tripod).

I used for many years the 2.8/180 (non apo) not bad, but using with extender ( I used x1.4 when I had 2.8/280) was not very good even closing to F/8 .

 

On 4/2/2022 at 10:02 PM, Stef63 said:

Indeed.  Apo-Telyt-R 3.4/180 of course !

 

Indeed!

If you can afford it, the APO Elmarit 180 R is in my view the nicest tele Leica ever made (the APO Telyt 280 is the best in resolution and the APO Elmarit 180 the nicest in image character 😊).

Edited May 4, 2022 by otto.f

[otto.f]

18 minutes ago, beewee said:

I can’t speak for the non-APO 180 Elmarit R but the 180/3.4 APO-Telyt is stunningly sharp at long distances.

It has very good microcontrast out to the corners on the SL2-S.

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This is a good example of a special characteristic of the APO 3.4: it has a special gift of penetrating through fog and mist, unseen with other lenses

[Pintpot]

A wee bit off topic, can an extender be used with a zoom lens ? I have a Vario Elmar R 28 - 70.

Thanks in advance!

[a.noctilux]

4 hours ago, Pintpot said:

A wee bit off topic, can an extender be used with a zoom lens ? I have a Vario Elmar R 28 - 70.

Thanks in advance!

Tony,

Your zoom is not in the list of lenses usable with Apo-Extender-R x2

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/APO-EXTENDER-R_2x

[ ...

• 28-90 mm f/2.8-4.5 - 56-180 mm f/5.6-8
• 35-70 mm f/4 - 70-140 mm f/8
• 70-180 mm f/2.8 APO - 140-360 mm f/5.6 APO
• 80-200 mm f/4 - 160-400 mm f/8
• 105-280 mm f/4.2 - 210-560 mm f/8.4

...

]

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Hallo,

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[Pintpot]

15 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Tony,

Your zoom is not in the list of lenses usable with Apo-Extender-R x2

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/APO-EXTENDER-R_2x

[ ...

• 28-90 mm f/2.8-4.5 - 56-180 mm f/5.6-8
• 35-70 mm f/4 - 70-140 mm f/8
• 70-180 mm f/2.8 APO - 140-360 mm f/5.6 APO
• 80-200 mm f/4 - 160-400 mm f/8
• 105-280 mm f/4.2 - 210-560 mm f/8.4

...

]

Thanks!

It was just a thought to save weight (and spending more cash on lenses)