35mm & 50mm Shooters - Do you like 0.58 magnification ?

[grahamc]

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Hi Everyone 

I'm a glasses wearer (although to make things complicated I don't always wear eye glasses to shoot) and predominantly use 35mm (majority of my shooting ) & 50mm.  

Even without eye glasses I can find 35mm framelines a little tricky (having to look around for them to 'complete' them), so I have a hunch that 0.58 magnification might be nice for me for 35mm.  But the trade off is that 50mm will be smaller .  

How do you guys find 0.58 for these 2 focal lengths please ?

I'm an occasional 28mm user, probably not often enough at this point to factor it in to the decision although can't see 28's on 0.72

Thanks ! 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by grahamc

[Jeff S]

Matter of preference and comfort.  I’ve used many M bodies from 1980’s to present, with magnifications .68x and greater, always using glasses (for distance and astigmatism), always using RF, and most frequently with 35 and 50mm lenses.  Never had a problem focusing or framing. I prefer using thin, flexible frames and scratch resistant lenses.  But with extended use, I find that everything becomes second nature. RF framing precision is also not exactly an M hallmark. 
 

Jeff

[Stephen.s1]

RF framing precision is also not exactly an M hallmark. 

 

Amen!

[Kwesi]

I recently bought the 36mm finder that was designed for the X1 to use occasionally on the M. Works well. I actually don’t have any issues with any of the frame lines as I wear contacts. 

[drew.saunders]

I'm a left-eye dominant glasses wearer, so I need even more eye relief than right eyed glasses wearers. I was reasonably happy with a regular M6, but had some difficulty with the 35mm framelines. When I tested an M6TTL in 0.58 (probably in 2001 or early 2002), I knew it was what I wanted. I saved my pennies, and, thanks to the then very favorable exchange rate, got an M6TTL in 0.58 in 2002, and have been using it ever since. I also got the 1.25x magnifier, which is attached to the neck strap. Leica equipment was a lot more affordable then! When I'm using a 75mm or 90mm (or 135/2.8), I attach the magnifier, but don't generally need it for a 50mm, even at f/1.5. I can't see the 28mm lines too well, but I don't own a 28, so that's not a problem. I use the CV zoom finder for my 24, 21 and 15mm lenses.

[grahamc]

6 minutes ago, drew.saunders said:

I'm a left-eye dominant glasses wearer, so I need even more eye relief than right eyed glasses wearers. I was reasonably happy with a regular M6, but had some difficulty with the 35mm framelines. When I tested an M6TTL in 0.58 (probably in 2001 or early 2002), I knew it was what I wanted. I saved my pennies, and, thanks to the then very favorable exchange rate, got an M6TTL in 0.58 in 2002, and have been using it ever since. I also got the 1.25x magnifier, which is attached to the neck strap. Leica equipment was a lot more affordable then! When I'm using a 75mm or 90mm (or 135/2.8), I attach the magnifier, but don't generally need it for a 50mm, even at f/1.5. I can't see the 28mm lines too well, but I don't own a 28, so that's not a problem. I use the CV zoom finder for my 24, 21 and 15mm lenses.

Thanks. That’s interesting - so you still find the 28mm lines a little elusive with 0.58 ? That sounds like my 35s with a 0.72 (although I can see them, they aren’t that practical as I need to look around). 
 

good to know you don’t find 50 a problem 

[Dennis]

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2 hours ago, grahamc said:

Hi Everyone 

I'm a glasses wearer (although to make things complicated I don't always wear eye glasses to shoot) and predominantly use 35mm (majority of my shooting ) & 50mm.  

Even without eye glasses I can find 35mm framelines a little tricky (having to look around for them to 'complete' them), so I have a hunch that 0.58 magnification might be nice for me for 35mm.  But the trade off is that 50mm will be smaller .  

How do you guys find 0.58 for these 2 focal lengths please ?

I'm an occasional 28mm user, probably not often enough at this point to factor it in to the decision although can't see 28's on 0.72

Thanks ! 

 

I will try to explain what I think about it. Hope this helps.

• I need my glasses to see/read the display (or a book), but I shoot 35mm w/o. 
• I really believe that to shoot 35mm with a 0.72 is the perfect match/commitment. I wouldn't change anything.
• I dislike using glasses to shoot w/ M at any focal length very much. But I would use it for critical focus w/ my 90 Elmarit-M.
• Every time I take a picture with my M10, in the 28-50 range, I always like/enjoy/(need?) to 'push' the camera toward my face to see as many frame lines (FL) as possible. I tried to do the same w/ glasses, and it doesn't work: the nose pads hurt me. I'm intense when I shoot, lol. 
• As seen below, the 35 FL in 0.58 VF is similar to the 50 FL in 0.72 VF. To my taste, it loses the charm to shoot. That's why I like to shoot w/ a 35mm so much. It's very M!
• If my eyesight worsens, I would probably operate my eyes w/surgery. Much better than using glasses to shoot w/ M cameras. Time will tell.
• I would love to try a 1.25x magnifier to shoot w/ a 50mm on a 0.72 VF.

Sorry for the bullets list, it was easier 

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[spydrxx]

I wear my progressive lens glasses all the time as well as when I shoot. I've tried the 0.58 and the 0.85 and was never satisfied using them across the 35-135mm fL ranges. I went back to a 0.72, after using one for years and then trying others, and it works well for me. I also have auxiliary finders for each FL I shoot, and occasionally use them. It all boils down, in my pinion, to what one feels comfortable with, acknowledging that accurate framing with a rangefinder is an oxymoron.

[grahamc]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

I will try to explain what I think about it. Hope this helps.

• I need my glasses to see/read the display (or a book), but I shoot 35mm w/o. 
• I really believe that to shoot 35mm with a 0.72 is the perfect match/commitment. I wouldn't change anything.
• I dislike using glasses to shoot w/ M at any focal length very much. But I would use it for critical focus w/ my 90 Elmarit-M.
• Every time I take a picture with my M10, in the 28-50 range, I always like/enjoy/(need?) to 'push' the camera toward my face to see as many frame lines (FL) as possible. I tried to do the same w/ glasses, and it doesn't work: the nose pads hurt me. I'm intense when I shoot, lol. 
• As seen below, the 35 FL in 0.58 VF is similar to the 50 FL in 0.72 VF. To my taste, it loses the charm to shoot. That's why I like to shoot w/ a 35mm so much. It's very M!
• If my eyesight worsens, I would probably operate my eyes w/surgery. Much better than using glasses to shoot w/ M cameras. Time will tell.
• I would love to try a 1.25x magnifier to shoot w/ a 50mm on a 0.72 VF.

Sorry for the bullets list, it was easier 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Thanks Dennis for the detailed info .  I see what you mean about the 35mm frames on 0.58 - it's close to the size that 50mm presents on 0.72 isn't it. If so I may find that a little small I think for my standard focal length.   Strangely I think the size works fine for 50 on my 0.72 viewfinder , but I think that's because in my world I think of 50 as 'zoomed in'

If I wasn't using the 28mm lines (I don't often) then I think I perhaps wouldn't be fully happy with the 35's being that much 'zoomed'.  Looks perfect for 28mm users though ! 

 

[grahamc]

4 hours ago, Jeff S said:

RF framing precision is also not exactly an M hallmark. 
 

Jeff

Definitely ! 

[grahamc]

By the way @Dennis I agree about the eye glasses, I really don't like shooting in them.  I used to remove them regularly but now less so as it does help with focus being able to see, I guess          But contacts are preferable when I remember 

[shirubadanieru]

For these two focal lengths 0.85 is the best, followed closely by 0.72. I find 50mm a bit smallish in the 0.72x finder, but for 35mm is just perfect. 0.58mm it would be too small and less accurate (which is fine for focal lengths that have a lot of depth of field such as the 21mm ~ 28mm, but not so much for a 50mm Summilux for example).

[Kriehuber]

Its rear that i shoot 35 or 50mm Lenses, but I only shoot 0.58 finders. Besides the bigger fov on the 0.58 it should be mentioned that Leica has a version of the 0.58 finder available that has NO 75mm Frame Lines. So you have 28/90 , 50 , 35 Frame Line "Pairs"wich is great!

When looking through my 0.58 finder right now with a 35mm and a 50mm attached, I personally can't imagine shooting either focal length with a "tighter", more magnified Finder. ( even worse, imagining using it while wearing glasses, that magnify it even more. But I don't need glasses so I have no clue what thats about )

It should also be mentioned that I prefer having as much space around the frame lines as possible. Personally I also never had a problem with accuracy, I keep my range finders properly calibrated and shooting the 28 Summilux wide open at the closest focus distance is no problem at all. The few times I used a longer lens at the same aperture I also had no problems getting images properly in focus. 

For me the 0.58 finder is hands down the best finder Leica offers.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Kriehuber

[a.noctilux]

Serious M user  would have more than one type of VF magnification.

I  never use  M with x0.58 VF but approching with Minolta CLE and Konica Hexar RF.

Not  as nice ( ? ...really     ?  ) as Leica M but enough for me as alternatives in film days.

 

Now with digital M,  other  "realities" can be LV/EVF  or even external OVF,  etc.

...

side note,

with practices, I even don't need to view the scene with OVF when taking the pic  😉

Edited March 3, 2022 by a.noctilux

[grahamc]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Serious M user  would have more than one type of VF magnification.

I  never use  M with x0.58 VF but approching with Minolta CLE and Konica Hexar RF.

Not  as nice ( ? ...really     ?  ) as Leica M but enough for me as alternatives in film days.

 

Now with digital M,  other  "realities" can be LV/EVF  or even external OVF,  etc.

...

side note,

with practices, I even don't need to view the scene with OVF when taking the pic  😉

Hi Arnaud

True, I like the Minolta CLE 0.58 it really works great with their 28mm and 40mm lens set. 

 

[RayD28]

The first time I actually used a .58 VF with a 50mm I was shocked at the small frame lines.  Now it's not a big deal but if I know I need 50mm precision focusing for a daylong event I'll use a .72.  Having said that, with a reasonable amount of DOF (f4>) I won't hesitate using a 50mm with a .58 VF.

[drew.saunders]

17 hours ago, grahamc said:

Thanks. That’s interesting - so you still find the 28mm lines a little elusive with 0.58 ? That sounds like my 35s with a 0.72 (although I can see them, they aren’t that practical as I need to look around). 
 

good to know you don’t find 50 a problem 

Yes, with the 0.58 and glasses and using my left eye, I can hunt around for the 28mm lines, but the 35mm lines have just a bit of spare room. WIth the 0.72, the 35mm lines were just barely visible.

One tiny advantage of being left eye dominant: In portrait mode, I rotate the camera such that the shutter release is down, cradling the camera comfortably in my right hand, which seems a lot more comfortable than all these right-eye folks having to hold the camera from the "top" when in portrait mode. 

[Kriehuber]

Maybe it should be also mentioned, that you could always add a x1.25 or x1.4 magnifier wich gives you a 0.725 or 0.812 magnification when attaching them to a 0.58 finder. (I think there are also some magnifiers made by other manufacturers that have different magnifications / where you can adjust the magnification ) 
 

I only have experience with the x1.4, but can not remember the last time I used it. As mentioned above,  I don’t really use longer lenses then 28mm. 
Nevertheless, especially the x1.4 ( or one of the adjustable ones  ) can offer the ( in my opinion ) perfect finder combination in one camera when paired with the 0.58 finder.

[lct]

RF accuracy depends on VF magnification. If you're used to shoot at full aperture with 90/2 or 75/1.4 lenses on a 0.85x M6J, for instance, you'd better close down by one stop on a 0.58x M6. It is less of an issue with 50mm and wider lenses though. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by lct

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[Mute-on]

I don’t wear glasses to shoot, yet, but am becoming progressively long sighted, so that may change. 
I’ve been using a 0.58 MP for many years. In my view, it is optimised for 28 and 35mm lenses.
I can actually see the 28mm frameline, which appears as a 35 in a 0.72 finder. The 35mm frameline in a 0.58 offers a little more space than in a 0.72 finder, but not as much as the photos in post #7 would suggest.