Louis Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share #101 Posted February 25, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) It is possible they didn't warn us before, because they are thinking they can sell their remaining stuck better? Does all the videos we see recently about L lenses have anything to do with that? Is it possible they are working on a QL? But a QL (Interchangeable) would not be easy to use with huge L lenses!... I may have put my contact already in trouble; so, I prefer to wait and see!... My CL is working fine for me and I don't mind if there is no "new" CL for the time being!... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 25, 2022 Posted February 25, 2022 Hi Louis, Take a look here Leica APS-C -- No more!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
smcmason Posted February 25, 2022 Share #102 Posted February 25, 2022 18 minutes ago, Louis said: It is possible they didn't warn us before, because they are thinking they can sell their remaining stuck better? Does all the videos we see recently about L lenses have anything to do with that? Is it possible they are working on a QL? But a QL (Interchangeable) would not be easy to use with huge L lenses!... I may have put my contact already in trouble; so, I prefer to wait and see!... My CL is working fine for me and I don't mind if there is no "new" CL for the time being!... A QL that comes with a 46MP FF sensor that could use TL lenses at reduced resolution? Put an articulating screen on it and I would be in heaven 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 25, 2022 Share #103 Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Herr Barnack said: Why?? Was the CL not selling? So many people complain about the cost of Leicas and the CL was an affordable entry into the Leicaverse. Why would the CL not sell?? I can see no reason why Leica would stop producing a camera which was selling well; unless it was making a loss on some part of the system? Who knows, but I have never known a company walk away from a profitable part of its core business. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stLeica Posted February 25, 2022 Share #104 Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said: I can see no reason why Leica would stop producing a camera which was selling well; unless it was making a loss on some part of the system? Who knows, but I have never known a company walk away from a profitable part of its core business. No idea as to how Leica and its stores/dealers manage stock but the CL I purchased earlier this month was manufactured in January of 2018 per the stickers on the box and warranty card. Does not appear to be a first in - first out inventory strategy if production was ongoing. Is it possible only one batch of CLs was produced? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tritentrue Posted February 25, 2022 Share #105 Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Louis said: It is possible they didn't warn us before, because they are thinking they can sell their remaining stuck better? Does all the videos we see recently about L lenses have anything to do with that? Is it possible they are working on a QL? But a QL (Interchangeable) would not be easy to use with huge L lenses!... I may have put my contact already in trouble; so, I prefer to wait and see!... My CL is working fine for me and I don't mind if there is no "new" CL for the time being!... I doubt you're putting anyone in trouble, Louis. My contact, a current Leica employee from Wetzlar, told me last April that Leica had no plans for a CL2. He said that APS-C had not done as well for Leica as they had hoped. The same day he told me this, I asked a Leica-connected local shopkeeper about the matter and he told me it was his "understanding" that Leica had no intention to bring any more products to the APS-C market. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chef Posted February 25, 2022 Share #106 Posted February 25, 2022 "He said that APS-C had not done as well for Leica as they had hoped." One of the reasons for that was a poor launch strategy - things like not explaining the product positioning or how the product functioned with soft controls to the press, and how it fitted into Leica's longer-term plan. Leica then conveniently seemed to forget to support the CL as a system brand that gave users multiple points of entry and the ability to tailor their needs via different lenses from TL to L to M. Look at it as a business case study and it's an enormous and expensive f^*k up that with competent management might have succeeded. Maybe they should hire some of the smart people who have made Fuji such a success... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 25, 2022 Share #107 Posted February 25, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) The Sony a6600 with IBIS and a 16-55/2.8 kit lens sells for $2,800 while the CL sans IBIS and a 18-56/3.5-5.6 kit lens sells for $3,800 more or less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted February 25, 2022 Share #108 Posted February 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Le Chef said: "He said that APS-C had not done as well for Leica as they had hoped." One of the reasons for that was a poor launch strategy - things like not explaining the product positioning or how the product functioned with soft controls to the press, and how it fitted into Leica's longer-term plan. Leica then conveniently seemed to forget to support the CL as a system brand that gave users multiple points of entry and the ability to tailor their needs via different lenses from TL to L to M. Look at it as a business case study and it's an enormous and expensive f^*k up that with competent management might have succeeded. Maybe they should hire some of the smart people who have made Fuji such a success... I thought it was the Leica Q that killed the CL. At the least the sales numbers for the Q had to have put the CL in a tough spot by comparison. Fuji is only a success because it makes a good product and its products are affordable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtwo Posted February 25, 2022 Share #109 Posted February 25, 2022 Exactly what I opined in the CL2 thread. Leica is a premium brand, less in competition with cellphone cameras, and the CL is the entry camera for the pricier models. They can afford to run the CL at a lower profit or even a loss to make a mint on lenses and capturing customers into the GAS phenomenon. In fact, as good as it is, I tend to believe that the single lens Q is a mistake business wise only. You lose the revenue from lens acquisition. It makes sense if lens sales aren’t panning out. Perhaps we are an aberration here. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted February 25, 2022 Share #110 Posted February 25, 2022 I don’t see Leica super committed to the SL line either given the pathetic roll out of L Summicrons. How many years are we over due for those wide angles? And the S system? How can that possibly be making any money in 2022 given how pathetically far behind they are compared to far more affordable Hassy and Fuji systems? Should have been mothballed long before the CL. And 60 MP in an M. It’s sad to see just how lost Leica has become. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chef Posted February 25, 2022 Share #111 Posted February 25, 2022 56 minutes ago, hdmesa said: I thought it was the Leica Q that killed the CL. At the least the sales numbers for the Q had to have put the CL in a tough spot by comparison. Fuji is only a success because it makes a good product and its products are affordable. The Q would not kill the CL. They meet very different needs. If Leica does not understand portfolio management then that’s a very damning statement. And what you say about Fuji should be true for any brand and any product. The difference is how you make something seem affordable and good value, not just in terms of price. I was invited with my wife to do a trip to Lange & Sohne in Germany. Their watches are expensive, but after watching them being made my wife said “Now I understand why they’re so expensive.” It comes down to how you create perceived value, and in the case of the CL they failed to do that. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camaro5 Posted February 25, 2022 Share #112 Posted February 25, 2022 I am sorry to hear this and want to hear more about what Leica will (or will not) be doing down the road. Both my CL & M10-R are pretty new and I expect them to last for a good while longer, so I'm not too worried about it. My only concern with the CL might be getting service 5 years from now as I don't want to end up with a paperweight and unusable lenses. They did that with the R system to some extent and now there are no parts left and nobody to fix them. I suppose there are two ways to go. Use the CL until the wheels fall off like my wife does with her cars, or sell the thing and the lenses while they're still worth something. I lean towards the former mainly because I like it and use it a lot, and it serves its purpose. I'm not sure what I would do otherwise. The SL2-S is nice, but that means investing in another system, and there's no guarantee on how long that will be around either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Dahl Posted February 25, 2022 Share #113 Posted February 25, 2022 4 hours ago, jplomley said: I don’t see Leica super committed to the SL line either given the pathetic roll out of L Summicrons. How many years are we over due for those wide angles? And the S system? How can that possibly be making any money in 2022 given how pathetically far behind they are compared to far more affordable Hassy and Fuji systems? Should have been mothballed long before the CL. And 60 MP in an M. It’s sad to see just how lost Leica has become. That is now also my conclusion today. As you write, I can fear how long Leica will be in L Mount. Or only in very limited edition. If one has bought into L Mount to only buy Leica. In all other industries one would be very worried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobram Posted February 25, 2022 Share #114 Posted February 25, 2022 9 hours ago, Louis said: It is possible they didn't warn us before, because they are thinking they can sell their remaining stuck better? Does all the videos we see recently about L lenses have anything to do with that? Is it possible they are working on a QL? But a QL (Interchangeable) would not be easy to use with huge L lenses!... I may have put my contact already in trouble; so, I prefer to wait and see!... My CL is working fine for me and I don't mind if there is no "new" CL for the time being!... Sigma L mount cameras are direct proof that smaller L mount full frame camera is technologicaly possible to produce. Leica shall colaborate with Sigma. Vario Elmarit 24-70 is a nice example... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted February 25, 2022 Share #115 Posted February 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Cobram said: Sigma L mount cameras are direct proof that smaller L mount full frame camera is technologicaly possible to produce. Leica shall colaborate with Sigma. Vario Elmarit 24-70 is a nice example... As long as you don't want a viewfinder or physical shutter! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobram Posted February 25, 2022 Share #116 Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: As long as you don't want a viewfinder or physical shutter! There is a famous quote (somewhat dubiously) attributed to Henry Ford: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” Sony A7C is quite interesting in this regard (smaller size, ibis, evf,...) Edited February 25, 2022 by Cobram 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Prime Posted February 25, 2022 Share #117 Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Judging by some cars, that’s exactly what they got 🙂 Perhaps it’s beneficial for Leica to cull some product lines, to avoid spreading themselves too thin and being unable to be a leader in anything. They need to pick their battles, so to speak. Edited February 25, 2022 by Mr.Prime 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted February 25, 2022 Share #118 Posted February 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Cobram said: There is a famous quote (somewhat dubiously) attributed to Henry Ford: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” To be specific: I want a small camera I have the Sigma fp It is too compromised by what it leaves out and by its handling to be the small camera I want (It's good for other things). If that's still wanting a horse, then this part of the market has spoken. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Prime Posted February 25, 2022 Share #119 Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Being premium price, the CL-2 has to carve a niche where it can claim to offer value. I think their best option is still overall quality - keep the use of metal body and knobs, weather proof / rugged enough for travel, best EVF with longer eye point because lots of people with money wear glasses, and KISS. Don’t join the pixel races, optimize for low light and dynamic range - ability to take great images under duress being part of the overall ethos that the camera has the quality to go places that the others do not. This approach will differentiate Leica instead of them trying to keep up with the rest of them - carve your own path Leica and you’ll collect loyal customers. Edited February 25, 2022 by Mr.Prime 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobram Posted February 25, 2022 Share #120 Posted February 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said: To be specific: I want a small camera I have the Sigma fp It is too compromised by what it leaves out and by its handling to be the small camera I want (It's good for other things). If that's still wanting a horse, then this part of the market has spoken. Do you have any experience with Sony A7C? I'm not really a Sony fan (especially hate sony colors) but at least on the paper A7C seems a nice camera. Potential Leica CL2 or SL3s (s stands for small); full frame, similar size to Sony A7C, L mount, IBIS,... could be a really interesting product... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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