Leica APS-C -- No more!

[Rosebud55]

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I too have no plans to sell my CL. I enjoy using it with TL lenses and M lenses too much. So nice and light to carry.

if I need to I will buy another.

my back up cameras are the Fuji’s.

 

rosie

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[Mr.Prime]

This CL story just makes me frustrated with Leica. Why should I have any loyalty to Leica? Last night I started looking at the Fuji cameras, something I never felt interested to do when I bought my CL. The fuji cameras look great, 26Mp sensor is enough (goldilocks), they produce some excellent images and you can put Leica lenses on them with some sexy manual focus aids. Fuji are out there making compelling cameras so why should I show any patience for Leica who are playing cat and mouse games….?

[lct]

50 minutes ago, Mr.Prime said:

[...] Last night I started looking at the Fuji cameras, something I never felt interested to do when I bought my CL. The fuji cameras look great, 26Mp sensor is enough (goldilocks), they produce some excellent images and you can put Leica lenses on them with some sexy manual focus aids. Fuji are out there making compelling cameras so why should I show any patience for Leica [...]

Because you did not try your Leica lenses on a Fuji camera perhaps? My last one was the X-E2 which was quite a good camera with almost the same compact size as the digital CL. M lenses from 35mm and on did fine but WA and UWA lenses had more or less soft corners and edges due to the thickness of the sensor stack. The EVF was inferior to that of the CL too but i'm pretty sure modern Fuji's are better. As for X-trans sensors one may like or hate them the same way as Fuji films compared to Kodak's i guess but it required more work in PP than the CL due to some colors like orange and cyan too saturated for my tastes. All in all the CL is clearly better (to me), perhaps the best APS-C "digital back" for M lenses ever made, but this is subjective obviously.

Edited February 23, 2022 by lct

[Mr.Prime]

Yes, colours from the CL were very good, at least I never needed to adjust them after using Apple Preview default settings to convert from RAW as I wasn’t getting what I liked from in camera JPEG’s. I’d be happy to confer status of best results to the CL, but if Fuji is the future of APS-C and Leica the past, then the CL will remain a memory just like I have fond memories of the colours from my Foveon dp1 when used in good lighting.

[lct]

A Foveon based APS would interest me more than a Fuji or a bloated CL2 with IBIS...  Matter of tastes but the market rules and things are not that easy for camera makers. 

[ramarren]

I had a couple of Fuji cameras. Didn't like them much: didn't like the haptics, the complexity of the controls and menus, and the way the Fuji raw files render in LR and other tools. They just didn't meet my desires at all. Same for Sony A series. 

The CL body I bought because I sold my SL (after I retired from my photo business, I didn't want to carry that large and heavy a camera around) and I still needed a TTL viewing/focusing digital camera to use with M and R lenses. The CL proves to be as good as my digital Ms (M9, M-P 240, M-D 262) were in nearly all respects other than maximum ISO noise, better than I expected by far. It was good enough that I sold both the M-P 240 and M-D 262 after I had it because I realized I almost never took either of the Ms off the shelf any more. 

What works for someone doesn't necessarily work for another. We must all make our individual decisions on what does and doesn't. There's no right or wrong to it. And ... Cameras, like cars and most other manufactured products, come in and out of existence regularly based upon the transient notions of the manufacturers, the audience, and profitability. Buy what works for you, use it, be happy with it. Bothering yourself with notions of buying a future-history of development is really such a waste of time and energy...!   

My CL continues to work very well for me, for all the things I normally shoot with a leicht Kamera. When I need better dynamic range, more resolution, etc, I turn to my Hasselblad 907x now, which is NOT a lightweight, hand-held shooter for me, but which does far more than anything I've seen out of smaller sensors like FF and APS-C when I need that plus.

G

[sjöbjörn]

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Glad to see that there are other users enjoying the Leica CL. I bought mine not too long ago and really like to use it! What I do miss is an IBIS and better battery performance, but I really like the output the camera provides.

so it would be really interesting to hear what Leica would recommend a CL user willing to invest in a camera.

one of the big advantages is the size, an this is lost when using a bigger sensor format. Especially the lenses get larger.

[Mr.Prime]

I’ve never had a camera with IBIS and so I’ve no real experience of it’s value, especially when digital cameras have such good IQ at elevated ISO. I would want a CL-2 to remain unencumbered by the increased cost, battery drain and size/weight of IBIS.
 

The fuji x-e3 is probably the closest cousin of the CL but I’m not suggesting a conflict of opinions over why one is better, the huge difference in price alone should suggest that the CL is expected to be superior. The point is not to convince anyone, even ourselves, that Fuji (or anyone else) should be rejected -  but that it seems Leica is out of the (APS-C) game?

Edited February 23, 2022 by Mr.Prime

[ramarren]

IMO, IBIS is useful when using a medium to longish tele in modest (not ultra dark) light, hand held. I"ve had several cameras with IBIS and enjoyed what it lends as advantage, but (like autofocus) I don't consider it an essential for my photography. 

When I go to buy another camera, I'll likely buy another digital M. That way I preserve the use of my existing lenses and get their full functionality on the body mount they were designed for. The difference in size and weight to the CL body is not much. I might also buy a Pixii as it will complement the CL being an APS-C body that takes the same M-mount lenses I use now. 

G

[Le Chef]

I think when you know that Fuji is introducing a new generation of X cameras in May with a brand new sensor, then it’s understandable that Leica just threw in the towel, but never told anyone they had given up.

[Mr.Prime]

Well, the funny thing is we all seem to want something slightly different and it’s none of the cameras on the market !

I suppose we all have different priorities. For me, my priority is the user experience and that means most of the budget should be spent on the viewfinder because it’s how I connect to the image. That would lead me to a very high resolution EVF with large magnification and a long eye point. Put a manual lens on front and a shutter speed dial on top and call me done. Yes, that’s most of the good film cameras I’m describing only done with an EVF.

 

Neither the CL nor the Fuji X-E4 reach this bar.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Mr.Prime

[frame-it]

funny..this whole discussion happened 3 months back on DP 😇

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65622065

[Louis]

55 minutes ago, frame-it said:

funny..this whole discussion happened 3 months back on DP 😇

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65622065

We started asking Leica for some clarifications about their intention in regard to the future of apac,  here in LUF longer that that.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Louis

[Le Chef]

9 hours ago, frame-it said:

funny..this whole discussion happened 3 months back on DP 😇

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65622065

You can search for the origins of this topic here a good 6 months or more ago, which then spread to DPR and MacFilos. 

[Foxtwo]

On 2/21/2022 at 6:17 PM, Louis said:

All the rumors about Leica ending the production of CL and TT2 became real!

I learned from a contact in Wetzlar, Leica has, indeed, decided to end APS-C line and may come with another L mount camera in the future. But don’t expect it for soon!

I am still blaming Leica AG for not announcing this decision officially; so some of us could decide earlier about our gear, and maybe, avoid some extra expense.

As far as I am concerned, I continue using my excellent CL as long as it keeps working, but because of their unacceptable attitude, I would never trust Leica company anymore and I will never purchase any other Leica product again!

Sorry folks for the bad news, but I believe I had a moral obligation to share it with you.

You do realize that if your contact turns out to be wrong, Louis, that you're going to have to leave town? 😉

Unless Leica is trying to sell off the rest of the TL lens and CL body inventory, it sure seems that they'd have announced it by now. Those items still seem to be available and stock doesn't seem to be waning yet, does it?

[Louis]

Guys, don’t shoot the messenger! 😅

The person who told me about it is one of the people  working at Leica, Metzlar, with whom I have been in touch for sometime.

Maybe she/he is  not telling me the truth!

Maybe  this is their way of communicating to us about this issue!

Maybe also, they just want to end these discussions once and for all!

But this is what I was told, and as we have been discussing about it  for months, I thought, I should share it with you; it could be helpful to some to know!

As for their stock, I also got the impression they couldn’t get rid of it entirely yet! 🤗

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Louis

[Herr Barnack]

Why??  Was the CL not selling?

So many people complain about the cost of Leicas and the CL was an affordable entry into the Leicaverse.  Why would the CL not sell??

Edited February 24, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[Louis]

39 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

Why??  Was the CL not selling?

So many people complain about the cost of Leicas and the CL was an affordable entry into the Leicaverse.  Why would the CL not sell??

This is also a mystery  for me! I always had the impression that CL was very popular and was selling well; but how come about the remaining stock!!!... I think the issue is giving up with ASPC, that they think is a victim of  the cellulars!.... I don't buy that, either. The people we see on every street shooting anything with their Cell are completely different from APSC users... 

Well; I guess they can always find an excuse for their ridiculous decisions!.... But for me, the important issue is not officially  announcing it to public and letting for  the speculations for months!

Edited February 24, 2022 by Louis

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Herr Barnack]

8 minutes ago, Louis said:

This is also a mystery  for me! I always had the impression that CL was very popular and was selling well; but how come about the remaining stock!!!... I think the issue is giving up with ASPC, that they think is a victim of  the cellulars!.... I don't buy that, either. The people we see on every street shooting anything with their Cell are completely different from APSC users... 

Well; I guess they can always find an excuse for their ridiculous decisions!....

We are in 100% agreement.

I just do not see a rational, logical reason for Leica to kill the CL.  JMHO but no cell phone in existence is a viable competitor for the CL.

My cell phone has a camera but that does not make it a camera.  IMHO it is nothing more than a pocket sized laptop that provides half-assed phone and camera functions.

When it comes to anything related to photography, I absolutely refuse to half-ass anything.  Everybody else's MMV.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[smcmason]

5 minutes ago, Louis said:

This is also a mystery  for me! I always had the impression that CL was very popular and was selling well; but how come about the remaining stock!!!... I think the issue is giving up with ASPC, that they think is a victim of  the cellulars!.... I don't buy that, either. The people we see on every street shooting anything with their Cell are completely different from APSC users... 

Well; I guess they can always find an excuse for their ridiculous decisions!....

As someone who is new to Leica, the CL & L Mount are what brought me in. The CL was a great addition to my S1R (much more portable and could work with my existing FF lenses). Then I ended up loving the 24-90 images and bought one of those. Now I'm thinking about how nice it would be to own a Q and an SL2 and wondering what might be released next. If not for the relative accessibility of the CL, I probably would've stayed with Panasonic hardware and not explored Leica at all. The APS-C line makes for an effective gateway drug into the Leica ecosystem for new customers.