Leica APS-C -- No more!

[Le Chef]

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What Louis is saying reinforces what other people have said following meetings at Wetzlar. I don’t want to believe it, but considering the amateurish way in Stefan Daniel communicates to customers then I suspect it’s true.

[nicci78]

11 hours ago, oldwino said:

Leica's "problem" is that their APS-C cameras are priced like full frame, and their full frame cameras are priced like "medium" format. For most people, there is no perceived value over the much less expensive competition. 

Everything is relative. 
CL is priced at half the price of the cheapest full frame from Leica !! 
If you want a Leica it is price of entry. It was lower with CL. In the future it will be 2x higher. 
People will soon realise how a bargain the CL was. 
 

remember this video from Hugh Brownstone. 
CL = M10 at 1/3 price 2/3 weight and 9/10 image quality 

 

[AdHox]

I feel like I need to knock off early today so I can take my CL out, just to test whether its performance has deteriorated in light of it now being orphaned. I'm sure my boss would understand the gravity and urgency of the situation.

Perhaps if I don't let my CL look at forums or rumour sites it won't realise and continue on as it always does.

[Viv]

12 hours ago, LACANYONHIKER said:

I just bought the CL, the 11-23 and and the Sigma 56 1.4.  I couldn't be happier with the results and shooting experience. I dig this set up.

"Gratitude is an action, it brings contentment." 😌

 

I just bought the Sigma 18-50 mm f./2.8 to use with my CL.

[Viv]

11 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

 I suspect Leica is moving away from “entry level” anything, though I would love a digital M-A with a meter and little else.

 

It seems to me that Leica is moving steadily up market, just as Porsche did.

Porsche no longer has an "entry level" model. Even the Boxter and Cayman are out of reach of the majority.

[LACANYONHIKER]

10 minutes ago, Viv said:

I just bought the Sigma 18-50 mm f./2.8 to use with my CL.

How do you like it?  I hear it’s a great zoom. I’m liking the 56. 

[Viv]

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1 minute ago, LACANYONHIKER said:

How do you like it?  I hear it’s a great zoom. I’m liking the 56. 

Early days, but the build quality is excellent and the first test shots seem just fine ...

I considered the Leica 18-56, but was deterred by the price.

[frame-it]

16 hours ago, Life By Stills said:

Is this basically saying, "Even if we stop our APS-C line, you have other manufacturers which can be used with our gear, so keep buying for the moment"? 🤣😝

so why show the CL in the video if they're discontinuing it ?

[Archiver]

10 hours ago, Rusty said:

Sorry everyone, its my fault and I take full responsibility.

I tried Pentax DSLR's quite a few years back and they folded.

I still have the amazing Nikon Coolpix A and thats no longer supported. Still the same spectacular IQ though.

I bought a Nikon V1 and J5 and a few lenses and that system is no longer. I have retained my V1 and the pin sharp cx70-300 which is my wildlife setup with an effective range of 189-810mm. And it still take photos as good as they day I bought it, who would have thought. I guess I'll use it till it dies.

Then before Xmas I bought a used CL and 18/2.8. My dream camera. I should have known better and I really should have warned you all. 

The thing is its the best camera I've ever owned and I love it. Stupidly I bought some sigma lenses as well. So I guess I will have to use it until it dies (or I do and given the build quality it could be me first).

Seriously its technology folks, its highly likely you will invest in a new system because the tech is so much better, well before your CL and lens stop working.

And its a leica, I look at the prices for used X1's and I think the CL will always have a good residual value.

And if any of you are still worried and want to quit the system please let me know. I will be on the lookout for some cheap lenses and accessories.

 

 

Darn you, Rusty. Although I'm guilty of the same thing with TV shows in the 90s. It seemed if I liked an action series it wasn't long for this world. Time Trax? Dead and gone after two seasons. The Burning Zone? Also axed after a disastrous second season. Street Justice? Didn't last too long. Dark Justice and Fortune Hunter? Likewise. They even axed Forever Knight, never mind that Kindred The Embraced was put in the grave after one season. The only two series of that type which I liked that continued for a while were Highlander and Renegade.

As for Leica leaving aps-c, the value of these cameras and lenses will remain steady for some time after Leica has stopped making them. And they will work just as well as before their discontinuation. If other digital cameras are anything to go by, the CL and TL will operate for a decade at least. My 13 year old Canon 5D Mark II has tens of thousands of shutter actuations and it still going. My M9 is 11 years old this year and is still producing rich and gorgeous files.

[Guytou]

My antique Digilux 2 from 2004 still works perfectly ! 🙂
Same as for my first digital and tiny Canon Ixus 40 (credit card format) bought in 2005...

Guytou

[Kim Dahl]

I understand the argument that a CL or TL2 continues to work as it always has.  
BUT I bought Leica to develop myself.  Buy new things for the system.  Buy a new further developed CL / TL.  Just like most of us on this Forum and who read this thread.  Not to be locked into that system because no new things are coming.  

I'm so happy that Louis has now been able to confirm that the system is stopping and no more is being produced.  Not really surprising but I had then hoped they would change their minds.  
 

Also because new buyers do not have to go in the belief that they have bought a system camera that is still being produced.  As for resale prices then do not expect it will have the price.  

I was offered 600 € for my mint Leica TL2. (official Leica store!)   If I would buy another new SL2 (s) at full price.  
It's pretty much worthless.  

The TL lenses are still a bit pricey but under 1/2 price from new if you buy another Leica new.  

My Canon 30D (from the year 2000) also works perfectly yet but I never use it 😂 and it makes no sense either.

[wizard]

Am 22.2.2022 um 05:43 schrieb Louis:

What you mentioned about repairs and parts is exactly what worries me. This is not clear and Leica’s attitude is not reassuring!

To the best of my knowledge, Leica is required by law to service and repair products for 10 years from either launch or date of purchase (I am unsure about the latter), and that includes stocking spare parts. So I would not worry too much really. Your results with the CL are just great, and they will continue to be so, regardless of whether production of that camera (line) will end or not.

Cheers,

Andy

[nicci78]

A little visit to my Leica store this morning. 
They don’t know if there will be a CL2 or not. It is on stand by. 
However I learned that they still sold at the very least one CL per week. 
For them it is not a failure at all. 
They don’t believe that Leica will not sell anything at 2,500-3,000€ price range. It will be hard for them to upscale everybody to 5,300€ Q2. 
 

It almost happened once. When they were afraid that Leica will stopped selling rebranded Panasonic compact cameras ! D-Lux 7 and V-Lux 5 took an eternity to be released. 
They begged Wetzlar to be sure to have something to sell at the 1K€ price range. 
By the way those compact cameras are selling extremely well on Leica stores. More than CL or TL2 by the way. 
 

They think that Leica stores are not sustainable without entry level cameras. 
M11 sell is already slowing down. And available in quite short notice. 
Actually I could have walked with one this morning. It is in stock. 
I guess that 8K€ customers are not that numerous after all. 
 

 

May be Leica will produce another APS-C under the pressure of their distribution network. Just like they pressured Wetzlar to release another round of PanaLeica compacts. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by nicci78

[nicci78]

So my advice. Go lobby your local Leica store to buy the next CL2. They need your voice to convinced the motherland to green light the CL2. 
For my Leica store nothing is decided yet. CL2 production is just suspended to a sign of destiny. 

[papimuzo]

19 hours ago, papimuzo said:

[..........................].
I am not too angry against  the Leica' management, I cann't forget that the Daniels' familly saved  Leica desappearing from the camera market.

[.........................]

Should have be read as Kaufmann of course!!! Sorry.

Marcel

[frame-it]

Regarding Chip and other supply issues [ or lack thereof! ]  

>>>

LEICA (statement from Leica UK managing director Jason Heward)

‘I would say that, so far, our production and supply chain team has done a great job in managing these turbulent times. As a medium-size manufacturer the pressure is different than that faced by the larger, mass manufacturers. We also do not have an internal competition for components from other product divisions, so we can focus solely on one core range. We have seen a many-fold increase in the price of components but have largely managed to absorb these so far. The outlook for the next six to 12 months is still challenging and it’s unlikely that we won’t have moments when we are unable to meet customer demand. We will plan for these as far in advance as possible to avoid disappointment.’

[Life By Stills]

3 hours ago, frame-it said:

so why show the CL in the video if they're discontinuing it ?

They caught on to people talking about this? They want to quash rumours? Because it is still in their range and not been discontinued officially? A plethora of reasons lol. Who knows for sure.

We'll just have to wait and see what any official announcement looks like I guess.😓🤣😝

[frame-it]

13 minutes ago, Life By Stills said:

We'll just have to wait and see what any official announcement looks like I guess.

exactly.

[Kim Dahl]

Leica could just go out and say - if they want to crush the rumors about CL, TL and APSC is over for Leica - that the rumors are not true!
It's easy - how hard can it be.

That they are still working on a successor, but it will not be now because they can not get electronic part for production.  

Again - it's easy.  It will not cost anything.  Maybe even boost sales again and make existing kunden happy again.  I have been working with communication all my life and still do.

But they do not do so despite persistent rumors - so therefore - I now believe what Louis says about this.  APSC is finally over for Leica.    
 

Now I want to go out and photograph and think about what I want to do in the long run. ☺️
 

Oooo 😷😷 no, I have corona and need to stay home a few more days.  So I'll stay on Forum a little longer.  ☺️📷

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[ramarren]

I have no plans to sell my "orphaned" CL. Just like I have no plans to sell my "long obsolete" M4-2. I should sell *some* cameras, however, as there's no way I have time to use all of them.

What I think I'd like, at the moment, to complement the CL and M4-2 is either a Pixii, an M typ 246, or an M10-M. The M typ 246 and M10-M are appealing as they have Live View and I can use my R lenses on them easily, when I want to. But finishing my car restoration project comes first, and I'm not overburdened with excess disposable money. So those desires are on hold. 

I guess I'll just keep on making photos with what I have for a while.  

G

PS: The car's coming along very nicely. Might be out of the interior shop today or tomorrow and ready for the next detailing work...

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVBfFhG

Edited February 23, 2022 by ramarren