Leica APS-C -- No more!

[lct]

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1 minute ago, MJB said:

Fair points, to be sure. I just personally find that the articulating screens always feel a little flimsier than a camera without, and necessitate a little added bulk. Plus as I've explained I'm already biased against composing on the LCD in the first place, but I do understand that I'm in the minority here.

There are times when there is no choice but taking the photo with articulated screen or taking nothing at all or nothing accurate at least, typically when shooting overhead as i did for this pic by example.

[rob_w]

The deed is done.  Last Saturday all my remaining Leica equipment was delivered to a camera store in London — fortunately for a generous trade-in -- and I returned home with a Sony A7R IV camera body and lens selection.

 

The kit with some review links from Dustin Abbott in case you are interested:

• Sony A7R IV body.  https://dustinabbott.net/2019/10/sony-a7r-iv-review-a7riv/  My rationale for this choice was based on the excellent Sony AF, compact mid-weight body, excellent viewfinder, high res 61 Mp sensor with the ability to crop x1.5 to 26 Mp, which means each lens can operate in two ranges.

• Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 Di III VXD G2.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/11/tamron-28-75mm-f2-8-di-iii-vxd-g2-a063-review/  I dithered a bit whether to get a zoom because they are of necessity larger.  I could have chosen the Sigma 18-50 APS-C zoom so well regarded here and used it in crop mode.  But I have other choices for a light weight combination, and the Tamron is light enough for a day walking around.  It  has had favourable reviews from everyone, and won DPReview’s award for best lens of 2021, if that is significant. 

• Sony 35mm F1.4 GM.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/05/sony-fe-35mm-f1-4-g-master-review/  This was my ‘prestige’ choice, for when I want performance of very high quality.  With the crop factor, it can also be used as a 50mm 2.0.  Again, favourable reviews from all reviewers, great and small.  Modest size and weight for its capabilities (about the same as the Leica Summilux TL35 1.4 I have been using with the Leica CL).

• Sony FE 24mm F2.8 G Review.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/07/sony-fe-24mm-f2-8-g-review/  This was my choice for a light weight combo when I just want to take the body with a small prime attached.  Quite well reviewed; light and compact with no real compromises other than the usual software corrections most of these lenses now have.  With the crop it will make a nice 35mm option when needed.  The combination camera and lens is about the same size and weight as my first Leica R with an Elmarit-24 back in the 1980s; it even fits in the small Oberwerth bag I used for my CL with one lens.

This is all based on research and short trials of the equipment.  Next step is to subject the outfit to real shooting experience in a variety of situations over the coming months.  Early experience over Easter has been completely positive.  Sadly I wont be able to post any results here, but I will be dropping by to see how everyone is getting on and because I love seeing the photos you take.

 

The deed is done.  For the first time in 43 years there is no Leica in the house.  It feels rather strange!

 

[Louis]

4 minutes ago, rob_w said:

The deed is done.  Last Saturday all my remaining Leica equipment was delivered to a camera store in London — fortunately for a generous trade-in -- and I returned home with a Sony A7R IV camera body and lens selection.

 

The kit with some review links from Dustin Abbott in case you are interested:

• Sony A7R IV body.  https://dustinabbott.net/2019/10/sony-a7r-iv-review-a7riv/  My rationale for this choice was based on the excellent Sony AF, compact mid-weight body, excellent viewfinder, high res 61 Mp sensor with the ability to crop x1.5 to 26 Mp, which means each lens can operate in two ranges.

• Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 Di III VXD G2.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/11/tamron-28-75mm-f2-8-di-iii-vxd-g2-a063-review/  I dithered a bit whether to get a zoom because they are of necessity larger.  I could have chosen the Sigma 18-50 APS-C zoom so well regarded here and used it in crop mode.  But I have other choices for a light weight combination, and the Tamron is light enough for a day walking around.  It  has had favourable reviews from everyone, and won DPReview’s award for best lens of 2021, if that is significant. 

• Sony 35mm F1.4 GM.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/05/sony-fe-35mm-f1-4-g-master-review/  This was my ‘prestige’ choice, for when I want performance of very high quality.  With the crop factor, it can also be used as a 50mm 2.0.  Again, favourable reviews from all reviewers, great and small.  Modest size and weight for its capabilities (about the same as the Leica Summilux TL35 1.4 I have been using with the Leica CL).

• Sony FE 24mm F2.8 G Review.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/07/sony-fe-24mm-f2-8-g-review/  This was my choice for a light weight combo when I just want to take the body with a small prime attached.  Quite well reviewed; light and compact with no real compromises other than the usual software corrections most of these lenses now have.  With the crop it will make a nice 35mm option when needed.  The combination camera and lens is about the same size and weight as my first Leica R with an Elmarit-24 back in the 1980s; it even fits in the small Oberwerth bag I used for my CL with one lens.

This is all based on research and short trials of the equipment.  Next step is to subject the outfit to real shooting experience in a variety of situations over the coming months.  Early experience over Easter has been completely positive.  Sadly I wont be able to post any results here, but I will be dropping by to see how everyone is getting on and because I love seeing the photos you take.

 

The deed is done.  For the first time in 43 years there is no Leica in the house.  It feels rather strange!

 

Rob, it is sad to see you gone from the Leica community that still is a link between many of us. But I wish you lots of joy with your new setup. 

I would love to know about your experience with Sony, and above all, I would love to see your shots with your new equipment.

Maybe you can still post in this site with a topic such as “ From Leica to Sony”, etc. 😉

best of luck, my friend.

[Mr.Prime]

For me the EVF is to be afforded a high weighting in considering a camera because it is how I experience the picture taking process. I'm still a closet SLR person. Reading from that link I see that the Sony has a very high spec. EVF and I'm excited at the possibilities.

Some years ago EVFs were basically awful and it was a revelation to pick up a Q, even the CL was good, but very much not in the ballpark compared with a good sized SLR optical viewfinder. This Sony camera maybe closing the gap - I would be interested to handle one of these myself to find out.

[Boojay]

1 hour ago, rob_w said:

The deed is done.  Last Saturday all my remaining Leica equipment was delivered to a camera store in London — fortunately for a generous trade-in -- and I returned home with a Sony A7R IV camera body and lens selection.

 

The kit with some review links from Dustin Abbott in case you are interested:

• Sony A7R IV body.  https://dustinabbott.net/2019/10/sony-a7r-iv-review-a7riv/  My rationale for this choice was based on the excellent Sony AF, compact mid-weight body, excellent viewfinder, high res 61 Mp sensor with the ability to crop x1.5 to 26 Mp, which means each lens can operate in two ranges.

• Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 Di III VXD G2.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/11/tamron-28-75mm-f2-8-di-iii-vxd-g2-a063-review/  I dithered a bit whether to get a zoom because they are of necessity larger.  I could have chosen the Sigma 18-50 APS-C zoom so well regarded here and used it in crop mode.  But I have other choices for a light weight combination, and the Tamron is light enough for a day walking around.  It  has had favourable reviews from everyone, and won DPReview’s award for best lens of 2021, if that is significant. 

• Sony 35mm F1.4 GM.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/05/sony-fe-35mm-f1-4-g-master-review/  This was my ‘prestige’ choice, for when I want performance of very high quality.  With the crop factor, it can also be used as a 50mm 2.0.  Again, favourable reviews from all reviewers, great and small.  Modest size and weight for its capabilities (about the same as the Leica Summilux TL35 1.4 I have been using with the Leica CL).

• Sony FE 24mm F2.8 G Review.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/07/sony-fe-24mm-f2-8-g-review/  This was my choice for a light weight combo when I just want to take the body with a small prime attached.  Quite well reviewed; light and compact with no real compromises other than the usual software corrections most of these lenses now have.  With the crop it will make a nice 35mm option when needed.  The combination camera and lens is about the same size and weight as my first Leica R with an Elmarit-24 back in the 1980s; it even fits in the small Oberwerth bag I used for my CL with one lens.

This is all based on research and short trials of the equipment.  Next step is to subject the outfit to real shooting experience in a variety of situations over the coming months.  Early experience over Easter has been completely positive.  Sadly I wont be able to post any results here, but I will be dropping by to see how everyone is getting on and because I love seeing the photos you take.

 

The deed is done.  For the first time in 43 years there is no Leica in the house.  It feels rather strange!

 

Good luck with it all Rob, sure you are going to have fun with that kit, having used the Tamron zoom for a while I think you made a good choice.  I haven't any experience with your other choices but no FF kit (for me) is complete without a 50, and I remember really enjoying the Zeiss 55 1.8.   A friend of our daughter's as a wedding gift produced a wedding album of shots taken solely with that lens on their big day,  I have to say his images for me were better than many provided by the Pro's on the day.  Anyway enjoy!   The house will survive😊.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, rob_w said:

The deed is done.  Last Saturday all my remaining Leica equipment was delivered to a camera store in London — fortunately for a generous trade-in -- and I returned home with a Sony A7R IV camera body and lens selection.

 

The kit with some review links from Dustin Abbott in case you are interested:

• Sony A7R IV body.  https://dustinabbott.net/2019/10/sony-a7r-iv-review-a7riv/  My rationale for this choice was based on the excellent Sony AF, compact mid-weight body, excellent viewfinder, high res 61 Mp sensor with the ability to crop x1.5 to 26 Mp, which means each lens can operate in two ranges.

• Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 Di III VXD G2.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/11/tamron-28-75mm-f2-8-di-iii-vxd-g2-a063-review/  I dithered a bit whether to get a zoom because they are of necessity larger.  I could have chosen the Sigma 18-50 APS-C zoom so well regarded here and used it in crop mode.  But I have other choices for a light weight combination, and the Tamron is light enough for a day walking around.  It  has had favourable reviews from everyone, and won DPReview’s award for best lens of 2021, if that is significant. 

• Sony 35mm F1.4 GM.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/05/sony-fe-35mm-f1-4-g-master-review/  This was my ‘prestige’ choice, for when I want performance of very high quality.  With the crop factor, it can also be used as a 50mm 2.0.  Again, favourable reviews from all reviewers, great and small.  Modest size and weight for its capabilities (about the same as the Leica Summilux TL35 1.4 I have been using with the Leica CL).

• Sony FE 24mm F2.8 G Review.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/07/sony-fe-24mm-f2-8-g-review/  This was my choice for a light weight combo when I just want to take the body with a small prime attached.  Quite well reviewed; light and compact with no real compromises other than the usual software corrections most of these lenses now have.  With the crop it will make a nice 35mm option when needed.  The combination camera and lens is about the same size and weight as my first Leica R with an Elmarit-24 back in the 1980s; it even fits in the small Oberwerth bag I used for my CL with one lens.

This is all based on research and short trials of the equipment.  Next step is to subject the outfit to real shooting experience in a variety of situations over the coming months.  Early experience over Easter has been completely positive.  Sadly I wont be able to post any results here, but I will be dropping by to see how everyone is getting on and because I love seeing the photos you take.

 

The deed is done.  For the first time in 43 years there is no Leica in the house.  It feels rather strange!

 

It's interesting to see the choices people are making now that the CL/APS-C appears to be no longer in Leica's product line. I've decided to keep the CL till it fails (or something better in a small package turns up), together with the 11-23, 35 and 60.

Sorry to see you go, Rob - but you'll be back!

[Sjz]

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2 hours ago, rob_w said:

The deed is done.  Last Saturday all my remaining Leica equipment was delivered to a camera store in London — fortunately for a generous trade-in -- and I returned home with a Sony A7R IV camera body and lens selection.

 

The kit with some review links from Dustin Abbott in case you are interested:

• Sony A7R IV body.  https://dustinabbott.net/2019/10/sony-a7r-iv-review-a7riv/  My rationale for this choice was based on the excellent Sony AF, compact mid-weight body, excellent viewfinder, high res 61 Mp sensor with the ability to crop x1.5 to 26 Mp, which means each lens can operate in two ranges.

• Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 Di III VXD G2.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/11/tamron-28-75mm-f2-8-di-iii-vxd-g2-a063-review/  I dithered a bit whether to get a zoom because they are of necessity larger.  I could have chosen the Sigma 18-50 APS-C zoom so well regarded here and used it in crop mode.  But I have other choices for a light weight combination, and the Tamron is light enough for a day walking around.  It  has had favourable reviews from everyone, and won DPReview’s award for best lens of 2021, if that is significant. 

• Sony 35mm F1.4 GM.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/05/sony-fe-35mm-f1-4-g-master-review/  This was my ‘prestige’ choice, for when I want performance of very high quality.  With the crop factor, it can also be used as a 50mm 2.0.  Again, favourable reviews from all reviewers, great and small.  Modest size and weight for its capabilities (about the same as the Leica Summilux TL35 1.4 I have been using with the Leica CL).

• Sony FE 24mm F2.8 G Review.  https://dustinabbott.net/2021/07/sony-fe-24mm-f2-8-g-review/  This was my choice for a light weight combo when I just want to take the body with a small prime attached.  Quite well reviewed; light and compact with no real compromises other than the usual software corrections most of these lenses now have.  With the crop it will make a nice 35mm option when needed.  The combination camera and lens is about the same size and weight as my first Leica R with an Elmarit-24 back in the 1980s; it even fits in the small Oberwerth bag I used for my CL with one lens.

This is all based on research and short trials of the equipment.  Next step is to subject the outfit to real shooting experience in a variety of situations over the coming months.  Early experience over Easter has been completely positive.  Sadly I wont be able to post any results here, but I will be dropping by to see how everyone is getting on and because I love seeing the photos you take.

 

The deed is done.  For the first time in 43 years there is no Leica in the house.  It feels rather strange!

 

Sorry to see you go, good luck and keep,sharing?

[anickpick]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb Sjz:

Sorry to see you go, good luck and keep,sharing?

 

May we kindly ask the Administrators to open a Leica's lost customers Forum due to abandoning APS-C right next to the Leica CL / TL / TL2 / T Forum?

Edited April 19, 2022 by anickpick

[lct]

1 minute ago, anickpick said:

May we kindly ask the Administrators to open a Leica's lost customers Forum right next to the Leica CL / TL / TL2 / T Forum?

I'm no admin but why "next to the Leica CL / TL / TL2 / T Forum" if i may ask? Just curious.

[raadoo]

3 hours ago, Mr.Prime said:

For me the EVF is to be afforded a high weighting in considering a camera because it is how I experience the picture taking process. I'm still a closet SLR person. Reading from that link I see that the Sony has a very high spec. EVF and I'm excited at the possibilities.

Some years ago EVFs were basically awful and it was a revelation to pick up a Q, even the CL was good, but very much not in the ballpark compared with a good sized SLR optical viewfinder. This Sony camera maybe closing the gap - I would be interested to handle one of these myself to find out.

Having shot mostly with Nikon SLRs (and one Sony A7II) up to that point, I still remember with great fondness of the awe that struck me when I first looked through the CL's viewfinder while in LCE's Strand branch. It was definitely the moment I fell in love with the CL and despite having tested a number of cameras that day - I recall the Fuji X-H1 and Nikon Df, among others - I left that day with the CL in my backpack. No regrets doing so, to this day.

[anickpick]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb lct:

I'm no admin but why "next to the Leica CL / TL / TL2 / T Forum" if i may ask? Just curious.

Because Leica is loosing customers due to abandoning APS-C - customers that might have bought an M or an SL in the future but now buy into Sony.

[jaapv]

They'll be back  

[anickpick]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

They'll be back  

the Leica APS-C cameras? 🤤

[jaapv]

The customers 

[Ivar B]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

The customers 

I don`t think you can take that for granted, Jaap. Maybe an old man like me with fond memories of Leica over many years, but not necessarily someone younger without the same history.

[Le Chef]

Maybe Leica will surprise us with a new product that encourages buyers/owners to come back. Maybe Leica will surprise us and commit to this future line rather than abandon it and owners in the process.

[Stuart Richardson]

I find this discussion interesting, as I think it seems to be operating in a world in which companies look out more for their customers than themselves. If we ever lived in that world, we certainly do not now. Leica clearly looked at the numbers and decided it was not worth it. They will operate it as a zombie line for as long as possible, both to earn as much money as they can out of their investment, as well as to continue catering to people who do want the system, but it will probably languish like the S system. The S system is still theoretically Leica's top of the line system, but they have not introduced a new lens since 2014 and the most recent S3 is largely a sensor upgrade to a camera from 2015 which itself was a minor body refresh and sensor upgrade to a camera from 2010 which was a sensor upgrade to a camera from 2008. Don't get me wrong, they are great cameras and lenses...I shot with them for 10 years and still have the lenses, but the line is a zombie line. That is the future for the CL line until Leica decides again that there is enough money to be made to make it worth their while to update the camera. At the moment it does not look like that will happen.

I get that people feel intense brand loyalty (I do too), but the vast majority of companies' loyalties are to their accountants and shareholders. Customers are generally down pretty far, in the "don't piss them off enough that they will never come back" part of the equation. Of course, I am not saying that Leica executives or employees don't have concern or care for their customers, I am sure they do, but their bottom line is always going to be their bottom line.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[Le Chef]

24 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Of course, I am not saying that Leica executives or employees don't have concern or care for their customers, I am sure they do, but their bottom line is always going to be their bottom line.

What you’re saying was a true 20 years ago, but today you have to think differently in an era of social media. Taking care of your customers is one very effective tactic towards future proofing your bottom line.

[Louis]

54 minutes ago, jaapv said:

They'll be back  

They may; they may not, but I find the suggestion of having a thread for those who left Leica very interesting. We may learn from their experience which has been the main purpose of this thread and our discussions.

I don’t know in what part of LUF and under what topic, but I support this idea.

Maybe “life after APSC”?  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[lct]

5 minutes ago, Louis said:

Maybe “life after APSC”?  

I'd support this with a slightly different title: « Life after APS-only cameras »?