Problems getting sharp images by 60MP

[Tailwagger]

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7 hours ago, KeyofG said:

Depends on the focal length as you already know. 

True, but I argue that focus distance is actually more important.  Simple geometry dictates that the closer the subject the more any movement will negatively impact the result.   It's easier to shoot a 50mm at infinity and 1/25" than it is at the same speed with a 28mm at 3 feet. 

[SrMi]

8 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

True, but I argue that focus distance is actually more important.  Simple geometry dictates that the closer the subject the more any movement will negatively impact the result.   It's easier to shoot a 50mm at infinity and 1/25" than it is at the same speed with a 28mm at 3 feet. 

That is a good point. 

It is something that I noticed with IBIS effectiveness: it depends on the subject's distance. FWIW, an effective IBIS needs focus distance, which is a problem with M lenses. 

Here is an interesting post by k-hawinkler on GetDPI about the effectiveness of IBIS as it relates to subject distance.

[Tailwagger]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

It is something that I noticed with IBIS effectiveness: it depends on the subject's distance.

Precisely where I learned that lesson as  well.  IBIS is far more effective at long range... one can often hand hold effectively for multiple seconds... but focus at minimum distance under similar lighting, if you rely solely on IBIS without using proper technique, it's virtually useless.  

[lct]

5 hours ago, SrMi said:

FWIW, an effective IBIS needs focus distance, which is a problem with M lenses. 

Would you mind to elaborate? I happen to use mostly M lenses on my A7r2 mod including for macro works and IBIS is always on. Not to say you are wrong, just curious .

[frame-it]

http://aggregate.org/DIT/IBIS/

 

and

 

https://alikgriffin.com/how-in-body-stabilization-works-3-axis-vs-5-axis/

[SrMi]

13 minutes ago, lct said:

Would you mind to elaborate? I happen to use mostly M lenses on my A7r2 mod including for macro works and IBIS is always on. Not to say you are wrong, just curious .

See this interview with Sony's Mark Weir: 

So what lenses will this be most problematic with? According to Mr. Weir, it’s all about the old rangefinder glass.

[lct]

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8 minutes ago, frame-it said:

http://aggregate.org/DIT/IBIS/

and

https://alikgriffin.com/how-in-body-stabilization-works-3-axis-vs-5-axis/

Bit complicated for my aging brain all this. What would you conclude? 

[budjames]

On 4/12/2022 at 10:58 PM, Erato said:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thank you so much for your kind words.🌿

50mm f/0.95 ASPH Noctilux-M, M11

This shot is inspiring me to shoot with more with this lens.

I have not shot my Nocticlux 50mm /0.95 on my M11 yet. I've been only shooting it with my SL2 because of the focusing ease. I'm going to try on my M11 with the Visoflex this weekend.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography.

[lct]

7 minutes ago, SrMi said:

See this interview with Sony's Mark Weir: 

So what lenses will this be most problematic with? According to Mr. Weir, it’s all about the old rangefinder glass.

Thank you much. Excerpt from your link:

« In the case that the lens does not provide electronic communication, the user can manually enter in the focal length. But in that case, the camera can still only have the focal length input, and not the focal distance »

Sure but it's still better than no IBIS at all no?

[SrMi]

4 minutes ago, lct said:

Thank you much. Excerpt from your link:

« In the case that the lens does not provide electronic communication, the user can manually enter in the focal length. But in that case, the camera can still only have the focal length input, and not the focal distance »

Sure but it's still better than no IBIS at all no?

Yes, certainly better than no IBIS. However, it is not feasible to get the best possible stabilization without the focal length information.

I wonder whether SL2 owners see a significant reduction in stabilization when they use M instead of L lenses.

[frame-it]

18 minutes ago, lct said:

Bit complicated for my aging brain all this. What would you conclude? 

min requirement is the focal length, ideally distance as well

 

 

[lct]

40 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Yes, certainly better than no IBIS. However, it is not feasible to get the best possible stabilization without the focal length information.

I wonder whether SL2 owners see a significant reduction in stabilization when they use M instead of L lenses.

I have no idea about the SL2 but my A7r2 allows me to choose the focal length fortunately. I thought that all modern cameras do that BTW...

[lct]

36 minutes ago, frame-it said:

min requirement is the focal length, ideally distance as well

I can understand this but fact is set focal lengths the same way in IBIS mode whatever the subject distance and results are still much better than with no IBIS at all. 

[frame-it]

50 minutes ago, lct said:

I can understand this but fact is set focal lengths the same way in IBIS mode whatever the subject distance and results are still much better than with no IBIS at all. 

yes

 

on a side note, a similar thread from 2020

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304973-do-we-finally-have-a-new-monochrome-yes-i-think-so/page/3/#comments

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by frame-it

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, lct said:

I have no idea about the SL2 but my A7r2 allows me to choose the focal length fortunately. I thought that all modern cameras do that BTW...

My question is whether users observe a difference in stabilization when the subject distance is available.

[lct]

38 minutes ago, SrMi said:

My question is whether users observe a difference in stabilization when the subject distance is available.

I don't because i never asked myself this question TBH. Sony A7r2 mod, 1/15s handheld with IBIS, Elmar-M 90/4 macro here (FF and 100% crop).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by lct

[hdmesa]

7 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

Precisely where I learned that lesson as  well.  IBIS is far more effective at long range... one can often hand hold effectively for multiple seconds... but focus at minimum distance under similar lighting, if you rely solely on IBIS without using proper technique, it's virtually useless.  

Effectiveness of IBIS also decreases with focal length, so quite a few variables at play.

IBIS on my SL2-S is rock solid w/M lenses at close distance, though. It makes a huge difference for me 🤷‍♂️

 

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, Cupbest said:

I don’t know why Leica M’s had to go to 60MP. 40MP was perfect for the Leica M. 

I don’t read it that way.  As I see it, the 60MP BSI sensor was just considered to be the best option.  I do get the sense that there has been a change in the decision making for the M system.  The pixel binning seems to me to be a compromise to deal with handling the increase in pixels.  To my mind, that signals a shift for the M digitals from reasonably accepted and stable technology to the more adventurous, bleeding edge end of tech.

While I am comfortable from what I’ve seen and read that achieving sharp images isn’t the problem many of us feared, the M11 still feels like a odd development to me.  There is much to love, but it’s almost as if Leica added the big capacity sensor, then had second thoughts.

[Jeff S]

Technology seems to be increasingly driving specs and marketing (including pricing) in top end Leica M products.  We see this in top M lenses now, too, as a Leica presentation revealed that the 35 APO M Summicron was initially spec-ed with the standard 70cm MFD, and only later in the development process, the tech side of the house said that 30cm could be achieved. The process was halted and the lens design was reconfigured, and no doubt the price point was adjusted.  Who knows if Leica can now meet the demand and maintain quality and reliability while pushing the tech envelope (in a very compact M package). But maybe we’ll eventually see how this was meant to integrate, as even more new tech allows, and as overall product lines evolve.
 

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[frame-it]

"The artist will always push the art form until he bumps up against the technology - that's the nature of the artist." - George Lucas (American Cinematographer, 2002)