35 v4 - out of focus rendering - is it normal

[mechanic53]

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My summicron 35 v4 is working weird. Areas which are out of focus look .... "abnormal". Very distorted. Almost like you would look through a periscope.

It all clear out almost completely at 4 and is fully gone at f8. Keeps very sharp image at f11. Good at 16. But the F2 it really strange. Photos are from M10-R.

Pictures:

• *022 - F2 - creepy areas in corners
• *023 - F2.8 - a bit better
• *080 - F2 again - looks.... weird
• *081 - probably around F4- F5.6

Is it me or something is wrong here with image at opened glass.

I can provide full scale images if needed.

I have also 50mm p-asph and 35-asph which all give me extremely sharp image. 35-asph has a bit of fuzzyness in the corners but nothing like this. I also tested it on other cameras, so it narrows down the question to this particular lens.

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[jaapv]

Very hard to tell on these rather muddy images.  But if you are unhappy just have it checked out by a qualified technician.

[mechanic53]

that's true - here is the light version of the field of view.

Looks like only half of the frame (center circle) is in focus. It's at F2.

What do you think?

Also, proper lens profile was applied in camera

 

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[evikne]

I think this is normal. This is an old lens, it is not sharp in the corners wide open. The corners will be smudgy and blurry. I have had two copies of this lens, they behaved in the same way. 

Here is a thread with some inspiration. Most pictures are stopped down, but I'm sure you will also see some pictures with the same kind of unsharp corners.

[mechanic53]

thank you - very useful thread.

I have also ASPH version - it works normally = as expected.

This thing (version IV) put me on the edge: should I sell it immediately or should I use it as "special purpose" lens - it's very unpredictable in terms of fields of view that will be in focus.

It all becomes completely normal once there is F4 or more.

[Erato]

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@F2

For further reference...

 

@F2

 

@F2

 

@F2

 

@F2

 

@F2

 

@F2

 

@F2.8

 

@F2.8

 

@F4

 

@5.6

Edited February 14, 2022 by Erato
remark added

[mechanic53]

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ok... so there is something wrong with mine ..... or it's me getting weird.

Ignore the content of the picture or the overburned everything. Notice the left top and bottom sides where there is a good amount of light.

 

It's F2 - focus in the center. And yes, I checked my rangefinder

edit: in the full scale image the center area (castle) is sharp

 

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Edited February 14, 2022 by mechanic53

[evikne]

52 minutes ago, mechanic53 said:

ok... so there is something wrong with mine ..... or it's me getting weird.

Ignore the content of the picture or the overburned everything. Notice the left top and bottom sides where there is a good amount of light.

 

It's F2 - focus in the center. And yes, I checked my rangefinder

edit: in the full scale image the center area (castle) is sharp

 

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I still think this image is almost as expected for this lens. It is sharp in the middle and less sharp towards the corners. The backlight against the treetops would have been challenging for any lens. In addition, the left tree is much closer than the castle, so the shallow depth of field would have made it blurry anyway.

Maybe you should try taking some more pictures of different subjects.

Edited February 14, 2022 by evikne

[archive_all]

1 hour ago, mechanic53 said:

ok... so there is something wrong with mine ..... or it's me getting weird.

Ignore the content of the picture or the overburned everything. Notice the left top and bottom sides where there is a good amount of light.

 

It's F2 - focus in the center. And yes, I checked my rangefinder

edit: in the full scale image the center area (castle) is sharp

 

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I think your test shots are flawed and maybe the lens is also or maybe not. If you're shooting wide open you would be focused on a closer subject in most circumstances. The images are also dark or in challenging lighting in this instance. I used to own this lens and never used it like this or noticed anything like this in any images I would post or keep. I would go shoot it as you normally would, in good light and see what you get or do a better controlled test out of the woods in more evenly lit scenes.

[jaapv]

Agree - these shots tell us nothing.

[a.noctilux]

I wonder why Leica replaced this nice lens with Asph. model after producing for 27 years.

After buying the asph. , I know some years ago, just looking at the f/2 FTM chart.

In those days, I had at one time about 10 of these so-called "KOB" to do some statistics, then gave up and still have one.

 

another way to accept,

have a read page 40 of this Puts .pdf

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/images/3/3a/Puts-2002-M-lenses.pdf

Edited February 14, 2022 by a.noctilux

[Dennis]

@EratoThank you for sharing. I like your exposures and editing. At f2 the KoB is spectacular. There is definitely a pop

Sometimes, I think I could shoot wide open only (Peter Karbe will be happy for me) and f8... That's it.

 

[Dennis]

17 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

In those days, I had at one time about 10 of these so-called "KOB" to do some statistics, then gave up and still have one.

Why you didn't save one for me?

Maybe we didn't know each other, yet.

[a.noctilux]

To be honest, I didn't know that the price would climb like mad.

Happy to keep one 1913-1983 (oh canadian), ... I added Wetzlar one when it was not so dear.

Sorry, Dennis,

I distributed cheap (well sold at the bottom of then price, like 650€-700€ each )  to young beginner photographers of those days.

[lct]

The Summicron 35/2 v4 has always been soft at edges and corners at f/2 folks. Same for all 35/2 and 35/1.4 M lenses from this era as long as i recall. For sharper results there better choose an asph lens.

[shirubadanieru]

Yeah you don’t wanna shoot pre-asph wide open for landscape work…it looks great for portraits though, sharp center with the corners all blurry. You need to use the lens to their strengths, and if you do so I’m sure you’ll enjoy it much more than the ASPH glass, but if you are looking for perfection then definitely stay away from non-asph glass. I’d recommend you to shoot this lens up close wide open either for objects or portraits, and you can get a taste for it’s lovely rendering.

When I first started using Leica I obviously wanted to get the latest and sharpest, and when I first got a pre-asph I was like what’s this, so soft at f2…and I sold it. Then, months later, I started missing that softness…and started feeling like the ASPH was just boring…so I sold all my ASPH glass and never looked back. That was 8 years ago

I think this is a path a lot of Leica users experience too. Of course, there are also those who love ASPH glass and that’s that. 

The 35 cron pre-asph V1 / V2&3 / V4 are all amazing (and more similar than not in their rendering), while being super small and light. The 35 cron asph is my least favorite lens out of all Leica lenses.

Edited February 14, 2022 by shirubadanieru

[Dennis]

56 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

To be honest, I didn't know that the price would climb like mad.

Happy to keep one 1913-1983 (oh canadian), ... I added Wetzlar one when it was not so dear.

Sorry, Dennis,

I distributed cheap (well sold at the bottom of then price, like 650€-700€ each )  to young beginner photographers of those days.

Tell me who, maybe they honestly sell for the same price 🤣

57 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

To be honest, I didn't know that the price would climb like mad.

I'm a Leica newbie, but I still heard crazy things... Unbelievable   

[Dennis]

23 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

When I first started using Leica I obviously wanted to get the latest and sharpest, and when I first got a pre-asph I was like what’s this, so soft at f2…and I sold it. Then, months later, I started missing that softness…and started feeling like the ASPH was just boring…so I sold all my ASPH glass and never looked back. That was 8 years ago

 

Lovely story!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[a.noctilux]

 

About sharpness 👇.

 

So long ago, I was proud to use the nicest lens available.

By then I wanted the sharpest lenses possible.

Searching for years without understanding that sharpness is "poor concept", what for ?

Photography is much more than "sharpness" in pictures.

Emotions are not linked to sharp pictures,

when I understood this, things became complicated 🤥.

Happy to learn the lenses and use them at best, without emphasizing sharpness.

 

[Lelmer]

8 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

....
When I first started using Leica I obviously wanted to get the latest and sharpest, and when I first got a pre-asph I was like what’s this, so soft at f2…and I sold it. Then, months later, I started missing that softness…and started feeling like the ASPH was just boring…so I sold all my ASPH glass and never looked back. That was 8 years ago

I think this is a path a lot of Leica users experience too. Of course, there are also those who love ASPH glass and that’s that. 

....

And there are also some, like me, who love both...😀