Help! Leica M3 rusty screw.

[MikeB123]

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Please understand that I am new to Leica so apologise for my lack of knowledge.

Please take a look a the attached photograph. I have a rusty screw at 12 o'clock on the lens mount of this m3 body. I did remove the screw clean it up and re-fit, but barely a month has passed and it is rusting again. The rust was so bad before I cleaned it up, that it was weeping onto the lens mount. I fear at some point in its life the original screw was replaced with an inferior?

From observing original product photos that top screw should be black.

My question: Does anyone know of a supplier/maker for this screw. If not would anyone know a replacement thread and head size?

Thank you so much for your time.

Mike Barnes.

I'm based in the UK.

 

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[jaapv]

Unfortunately I don’t know a supplier but a watch maker might be able to help Or ask one of the trusted repairers like DAG. The screw is supposed to be covered by a rubber compound BTW. I see you are in the UK. There are a number of technicians there see the thread naming them Or there is Will van Manen Camera Service in the Netherlands. I would suggest replacing the other mistreated screws as well 

[250swb]

It was probably never plated as the screw would be sealed in the hole with a black wax infill over the head and an embossed Leica stamp or service stamp applied. It's probably a good sign that the seal is missing as it means the camera could probably have had a service in it's life. Instead of tarting up the screw use some black plasticine to cover the top, it'll then look like an original seal.

[MikeB123]

Black wax! I was expecting some kind of anodised treatment or paint but not wax. Amazing.

Thank you both for your replies, very helpful. I will contact the craftsmen you suggest and cross my fingers... failing that I will find a black candle  🤪.

Thanks again.

Mike.

[Huss]

It's funny, I've seen some cameras for sale where they brag that it still has the original seal.  Sorta like bragging that your 20 year old car still has the original oil in it!

[elgenper]

8 minutes ago, Huss said:

It's funny, I've seen some cameras for sale where they brag that it still has the original seal.  Sorta like bragging that your 20 year old car still has the original oil in it!

OTOH, that seal was intended to show that no unauthorised person had opened the camera and messed things up inside it...  Nice to know for a buyer.

If that screw is really rusting, sealing it off and letting the rust spread unseen may not be an entirely good idea!

Edited February 1, 2022 by elgenper

[Huss]

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1 minute ago, elgenper said:

OTOH, that seal was intended to show that no unauthorised person had opened the camera and messed things up inside it...  Nice to know for a buyer.

If that screw is really rusting, sealing it off and letting the rust spread unseen may not be an entirely good idea!

It's nice to know for a buyer that the camera has never been serviced?

Service shops like DAG, YYE, Starky, Frank Marshman, Gus Lazzari are "unauthorized" and fantastic..

[MikeB123]

Well the camera has definitely been serviced, maybe a few times. Its as sweet as a Rolex, the rangefinder calibration perfect so I'm happy – just need to solve the rust.

"sealing it off and letting the rust spread unseen may not be an entirely good idea!"

Totally agree I assume the original screw would have been stainless. So I definitely need to find a replacement.

Thanks all.

Edited February 1, 2022 by MikeB123

[250swb]

24 minutes ago, MikeB123 said:

 

"sealing it off and letting the rust spread unseen may not be an entirely good idea!"

Never mind rust, it never takes long on the Leica forum for hysteria to spread. Stick around long enough and you'll be turned into gibbering wreck of anxiety and syndromes.

[MikeB123]

1 hour ago, elgenper said:

OTOH, that seal was intended to show that no unauthorised person had opened the camera and messed things up inside it...  Nice to know for a buyer.

If that screw is really rusting, sealing it off and letting the rust spread unseen may not be an entirely good idea!

 

13 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Never mind rust, it never takes long on the Leica forum for hysteria to spread. Stick around long enough and you'll be turned into gibbering wreck of anxiety and syndromes.

Ha, thanks. I may have to live with rust if I can't find a replacement. I guess I could wax seal it – to stop air getting to it. If nothing else.

[pgk]

You should really try to find out why it is rusting. If it is now being kept dry then there may be a cause such as salt, or if its a replacement screw you may have electrolytic corrosion, but either way it would suggest a source of moisture to me. If it persists in rusting you need to find out why.

[earleygallery]

Take it out, drop it in a glass of Cola for an hour or so, dry and refit then put a blob of wax or blue tak as a new 'seal'.

[MikeB123]

Cola! Ok!... are we... err... is that a wind up?  250swb warned me this would happen 🙄 I will try anything – Pepsi or coke?

pgk: yes the moisture issue is confusing as it is always kept in a warm environment. I guess even mild steel will rust in contact with oxygen and residual air household moisture so I suspect it's not the original screw fitting.

Electrolytic corrosion  - I will investigate.

Many thanks.

[250swb]

9 hours ago, MikeB123 said:

Cola! Ok!... are we... err... is that a wind up?  250swb warned me this would happen 🙄 I will try anything – Pepsi or coke?

pgk: yes the moisture issue is confusing as it is always kept in a warm environment. I guess even mild steel will rust in contact with oxygen and residual air household moisture so I suspect it's not the original screw fitting.

Electrolytic corrosion  - I will investigate.

Many thanks.

Coke can work to remove rust but it doesn't convert rust to an inert compound like one of those anti-rust treatments you can get from Halfords.

The screw itself isn't the same as the other screws, it has a different part number in the repair manual and is called the 'plombe seal' 706-039.163-000 (burnished) while the other screws are 705-995.213-000 (chrome plated). And it has a shallower head to allow for the seal. As for electrolysis occurring the screw will need to be in contact with a dissimilar metal for galvanic action to take place and I can't think of anything the screw touches that will be so dissimilar that air contact will cause electrolysis. Electrolysis is what happens with a classic car (say and Aston Martin DB5) where the steel frame supporting the body is in contact with the aluminium of the bodywork and it all gets wet. If your top screw is the same sort of height as the others it could be a poor quality replacement, if when screwed home it sits below the others it is likely to be the original.

[Topsy]

Get in touch with Leica UK or Leica Mayfair, they might be able to help. A couple of years ago I lost a screw in post that forms the lock for the hood on my 21mm lens, I reached out to them and they replaced it for me for free (I was in London for work so dropped in to them) while I waited. They had the part on their shelf in the workshop.

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[MikeB123]

I have had a lovely long email reply from Alan Starkie at Cameraworks-UK

Apparently that screw is now very rare/unique and often has to be custom made.

His DIY recommendation for treatment is excerpted below. I hope he won't mind me reposting it – it could help someone else:

From Alan:

'If it keeps going rusty, why not remove it, throughly clean it with hot soap and water, key it with fine sandpaper then clean it with IPA or acetone before painting it with Humbrol model enamel or make a small hole in a piece of cardboard, stick the screw in there and use some rattle-can spray. As long as you paint it straight away, normal humidity shouldn’t cause it to rust.

 

Or, do all the steps I mentioned before, but you can use a finer sandpaper to get a good polish, degrease and then dip into some of this stuff:' https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275060592408 

 

'Then you’ll have a properly blackened screw head. For final protection, fill the hole with some black wax. Black sealing wax could be used - available cheaply on ebay. Cut off a chip, use an old soldering iron and heat it so that it melts into the hole. When it cools, use a blade to make it flush to the surface of the lens mount. That will then have the correct look and seal the screw head.'

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124722950698 (wax)

This is just a small excerpt form Alans excellent reply - amazing service (little wonder they have a 6month waiting list).

N.B. At cameraworks-UK they use a chemical treatment - a blackening compound to treat that part – Beyond the scope of a DIY er. (me)

I hope that helps someone out there.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

Best,

Mike.

Edited February 2, 2022 by MikeB123

[250swb]

16 minutes ago, MikeB123 said:

I have had a lovely long email reply from Alan Starkie at Cameraworks-UK

Apparently that screw is now very rare/unique and often has to be custom made.

His DIY recommendation for treatment is excerpted below. I hope he won't mind me reposting it – it could help someone else:

From Alan:

'If it keeps going rusty, why not remove it, throughly clean it with hot soap and water, key it with fine sandpaper then clean it with IPA or acetone before painting it with Humbrol model enamel or make a small hole in a piece of cardboard, stick the screw in there and use some rattle-can spray. As long as you paint it straight away, normal humidity shouldn’t cause it to rust.

 

Or, do all the steps I mentioned before, but you can use a finer sandpaper to get a good polish, degrease and then dip into some of this stuff:' https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275060592408 

 

'Then you’ll have a properly blackened screw head. For final protection, fill the hole with some black wax. Black sealing wax could be used - available cheaply on ebay. Cut off a chip, use an old soldering iron and heat it so that it melts into the hole. When it cools, use a blade to make it flush to the surface of the lens mount. That will then have the correct look and seal the screw head.'

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124722950698 (wax)

This is just a small excerpt form Alans excellent reply - amazing service (little wonder they have a 6month waiting list).

N.B. At cameraworks-UK they use a chemical treatment - a blackening compound to treat that part – Beyond the scope of a DIY er. (me)

I hope that helps someone out there.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

Best,

Mike.

If you need to blacken the screw anyway, considering you should cover it in wax after cleaning, a blackening chemical for steel is safe and easy to use and available from model railway or good military modelling outlets.