Cutting the film leader - LTM bodies, M2...

[LocalHero1953]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have just bought a IIf, and I know I must trim the film leader when using LTM bodies.
I notice that the take-up spool looks the same as I had in my M2 (and probably M3 before that, though I can't remember).
I never had any problems loading the M2 film with 'normal' leaders and never thought to trim them.
What happens if you DON'T trim the leader for a LTM camera? Will it just not load somehow? Will it cause damage? What is it that requires that extra length of leader? Are you likely to cause damage by pushing in 'full height' film sideways rather than drawing it in by winding on? Is it simply that it won't push onto the sprockets sideways?

This is just my curiosity. FTAOD I will be trimming my film the proper way unless I hear that it is unnecessary!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[mikemgb]

There is a risk of the film bunching up and damaging the shutter, I have had this happen. The difference with the M cameras is the door in the back that allows you to guide the film, and also gives it space to bunch away from the shutter. 
 

Some people use a business card or similar to protect the shutter instead of trimming the film, others remove the lens and hold the shutter open on B or T while they guide the film in. 

[250swb]

With an M Leica you can get the sprocket holes engaged over the ratchet teeth because you can open the rear door. But a Barnack Leica has no rear door and it is often the case that the top sprocket will not engage because the pressure plate is pushing the film out of position. If you trim the film the bottom sprocket hole will engage and as you advance it this means the top sprocket hole automatically engages as well. There are work arounds that mean taking the lens off and engaging the T setting to open the shutter, but essentially it's just easier to trim the film, and its faster, and a trimmed film works in an M body as well so what the heck.

[michali]

Paul, Leitz 14126 ABLON 35mm Film Leader Cutting Trimmer Template 

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I have just bought a IIf, and I know I must trim the film leader when using LTM bodies.
I notice that the take-up spool looks the same as I had in my M2 (and probably M3 before that, though I can't remember).
I never had any problems loading the M2 film with 'normal' leaders and never thought to trim them.
What happens if you DON'T trim the leader for a LTM camera? Will it just not load somehow? Will it cause damage? What is it that requires that extra length of leader? Are you likely to cause damage by pushing in 'full height' film sideways rather than drawing it in by winding on? Is it simply that it won't push onto the sprockets sideways?

This is just my curiosity. FTAOD I will be trimming my film the proper way unless I hear that it is unnecessary!

I have this 👇 which I use to trim film for my old Leicas, it's a Leitz 14126 ABLON 35mm Film Leader Cutting Trimmer Template 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Pyrogallol]

There are any number of discussions about this, a similar one is running at the same time. 

 

Yes, trim the film leader as it should be or you will probably have problems.

[LocalHero1953]

16 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

There are any number of discussions about this, a similar one is running at the same time. 

 

Yes, trim the film leader as it should be or you will probably have problems.

Thank you; yes, I have been following that thread.

[spydrxx]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have a knock-off made years ago, as well as a downloaded template. I've found that a scissors or pocket knife, following the instruction manual, works just fine. If perfection of the curvature is important to you (it isn't to me), you can find a template online, print it out and cut one from cardboard, which you can use with a pencil to trace it onto the film before you cut it with a scissors.

[frame-it]

i just use scissors, and usually trim 4-5 rolls for the day in one go

i trim upto 16 sprockets, and always tighten it a bit, snap 2 shots, then tighten a bit again.

though when im in a hurry, i always ALSO use the card trick to make sure the film has settled in properly. you should hear a slight click when you push in the card

 

[LocalHero1953]

I never thought I'd have to learn card tricks at my age.

[Aryel]

I am an ltm newbee (got a iiif one month ago). I bought a remake of the ablon on the bay (25 usd + delivery).  Works well and took out the guess work. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Aryel
Added price

[TomB_tx]

While I have a couple of ABLON and copies, I usually eyeball the cut with scissors - as I've been doing for 50 years. Yet there are other options options for easy ltm camera loading:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Tanack made a close copy of the IIIf but loading through a hinged back. However, the Tanack can't use Leitz cassettes as there is no bottom latch to open/close the cassette.

The Nicca Leica copies can use Leica cassettes (and made their own clone of it), and some late models had a back flap (some vertical, some horizontal) for loading. This one is also a close copy of the IIIf, but with the back flap like an M3, and also a rapid thumb-wind lever!

Some other Japanese Leica copies used a Contax or Canon style cassette that won't work with Leica cassettes.

Edited February 3, 2022 by TomB_tx

[LocalHero1953]

I've just cut my first film leader by hand and eye - it loaded without problem. I measured four inches this time. I'll count sprockets next time - less fiddly.

[250swb]

By eye is good enough when you know you are simply trying to avoid the pressure plate with the full width of the film. I did see a cheapish contraption on eBay that gives a template measurement for Barnack cameras and also a template for normal leader length, possibly useful if bulk loading films for both types.

[Ambro51]

When you hand trim a leader the goal is to keep the cut even, not jagged. and make the cut so it goes between the perfs.  

[willeica]

14 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

While I have a couple of ABLON and copies, I usually eyeball the cut with scissors - as I've been doing for 50 years

Me too, Tom, except for the 50 years bit! I actually find that the ABLON complicates things. I cut and leave one sprocket exposed at the edge of the cassette. I saw Ivor Cooper of Red Dot Cameras in London doing this freehand when I bought my first IIIc from him and have not changed since then. I have an ABLON, but it is strictly a 'collector's piece' to me.

William 

Edited February 3, 2022 by willeica

[Ouroboros]

I trim film leaders in batches by eye with a scalpel.  You’ll trim some that are too long and some that are too short initially, but you soon get a feel for it.  The main thing is cut a smooth curve starting between sprocket holes and avoid nicks.  It all part of the quaint Barnack user experience.
ABLON have reached silly prices.  Nice to have if you have one, but not really necessary.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Ouroboros

[Nayfe Slusjan]

Hello! I've recently acquired a Leica IIIa so I was researching film leader cutting tools. It was a bit disappointing to find out they are so expensive! Anyways, being a graphic designer with a bit of time on my hands, I put this 1:1 scale template together. Hopefully it will be useful for someone else looking to make their own Leica ABLON. If you have any suggestions for the template, please send them my way! All the best, Nayfe.

Leica Ablon Trimmer Template.pdf