Would you buy an EVF only M camera? [MERGED]

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19 minutes ago, jaapv said:

If you repeat: an M camera is a Messucher camera 🤪

Then there are M cameras that aren't M cameras.

[IkarusJohn]

Have we been here before?  This all sounds familiar somehow …

[Jeff S]

The forum is similar to a US daytime soap opera. One can tune in after a 10 year absence, and the storylines are much the same, with only minor changes reflecting modern life. But some of the actors, and viewers, haven’t aged so well.

Jeff

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

Have we been here before?  This all sounds familiar somehow …

Full circle...

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, lct said:

I don't speak German sorry 😄

So that explains it.🙃

[IkarusJohn]

32 minutes ago, jaapv said:

So that explains it.🙃

Not really. Meßßucher means … M1, MDa … oh, hang on.  We‘ve been there before too!  Let me fill in the blanks - „They don‘t count as they were specialist cameras, made in small numbers“ etc etc … but they were still M mount cameras in the M form factor.  I guess it can’t be an M camera if it is for general use and sells better than those specialist cameras.  Wait for it …
 

 

[jaapv]

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I know - but I cannot take this discussion seriously anymore - an over-chewed cud  

You forget the two M Post models BTW. 

[Le Chef]

As the great Yogi Berra said "It's deja vu all over again."

[Tailwagger]

5 hours ago, lct said:

I don't speak German sorry 😄

I can, but when I mouth the syllables I haven't the faintest idea of what I'm saying.  😆

[IkarusJohn]

14 hours ago, jaapv said:

I know - but I cannot take this discussion seriously anymore - an over-chewed cud  

You forget the two M Post models BTW. 

Yeah, too lazy to look them up, so I went with the elipsis.  I do wonder if Leica will ever make it.  For myself, it would have been a nice addition, but I’m through with adding more digital cameras - they’re technically more than enough.  Monochrom (Henri), M10-D and M-A will see me out.

[JTLeica]

I expect there is a possibility to have a Rangefinder with a pop up EVF like the X100 implements. Or something similar. I think they discussed this around the M10 release and said they couldn't design anything with enough quality that they'd be happy with but that could change.

[lct]

As recalled a couple (dozen?) times above, Leica said lastly that if there were sufficient demand, they would consider producing an "M with EVF". Asked how many they would need to sell, Stefan Daniel replied “a couple of thousand” (link). Now this happened in 2022 and the sucess of the M11 was not known to the extent it received since then. Such a success should be a clue that M users don't dislike modernity hopefully.

[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, JTLeica said:

 I think they discussed this around the M10 release and said they couldn't design anything with enough quality that they'd be happy with but that could change.

Stefan Daniel discussed experimenting with a hybrid VF, but attempts resulted in unacceptable compromises to both systems and said the approach was a “no-go.”

Jeff

[rolu]

Am 28.2.2024 um 16:32 schrieb M11 for me:

Please NO video. I hope that Leica reads this post . . . 😀

Live View and EVF are video functions, no? - Why don't you let me record it?

"Ironically, by virtue of continuous OTS metering and LiveView, the M11 is effectively a video camera from which you are making stills." {quote from dante in another thread}

So if you want an evolution of the M-system in the digital age, as Wim Wenders so wonderfully put it in the video advertisement at the introduction of the M8, it should have video, of course. {And yes, I want to do video manually focussing M and LTM lenses; I explain this, because frequently in this forum it was suggested to use a smartphone...}

What it shouldn't have is an EVF, because the Messsucher {and the form factor} is the DNA of the M.

After the discontinuation of the T{iny}L and the C{ompact}L there is a smaller camera missing besides the huge S{uper}L. Why is it, that the customer's need for a smaller EVF camera is mostly focussed on the "M"-EVF, questioning the M's true heritage?

Woudn't be everybody content and no discussion about video and close focus with M and LTM lenses would be needed, if there was an "L" in the form factor of an M/Q ?

Edited March 10, 2024 by rolu

[raizans]

The compact camera that I want Leica to make is actually an APS-C M-mount rangefinder with a set of three APS-C M-mount lenses: 18mm f/2, 23mm f/2, 35mm f/1.4.

[Stevejack]

14 hours ago, rolu said:

After the discontinuation of the T{iny}L and the C{ompact}L there is a smaller camera missing besides the huge S{uper}L. Why is it, that the customer's need for a smaller EVF camera is mostly focussed on the "M"-EVF, questioning the M's true heritage?

I can't speak for everyone, but I think it's the form factor.

The M body is, I think, the perfect design for an EVF only camera. Personally if they are doing away with the rangefinder mechanism I would want it a little shorter than the current M10 / M11 bodies - something closer to the height of the M3 is perfect.   

The SL is nice to use with M lenses, but it's just a massive beast in comparison. A full frame M shaped camera without the rangefinder would be a nice addition to their modern lineup, as long as they leave the actual M alone and don't try to hybridise it. 

[fotofool]

Would you buy an EVF only M camera? 
 

If the electronics and software were engineered by Panasonic, yes.  If they were engineered by Leica, no.

[Qwertynm]

I don't know if that's been discussed before but recently I stumbled upon the TechArt Leica M to Nikon Z Adapter. This adapter allows AF with M lenses on Nikon Z cameras. Wouldn't it be pretty straight forward for Leica to produce an EVF camera with such an adapter built into the chassis and killing two birds with one stone? Small full frame EVF rangefinder style camera with small AF-capable lenses. The lenses could still be manually focused obviously but switched to AF for those who want it without having to switch to huge and heavy L-mount cameras and lenses. That'd be a genius move from Leica in my mind. It wouldn't replace the M obviously but offered alongside it to enhance the lineup. I'd get that as an addition to my Q3.

Edited March 15, 2024 by Qwertynm

[lct]

51 minutes ago, Qwertynm said:

Wouldn't it be pretty straight forward for Leica to produce an EVF camera with such an adapter built into the chassis and killing two birds with one stone?

M-mount cameras are supposed to work perfectly with M lenses in manual mode so i would not vote for any adapter built into the chassis personally, let alone that the body would be bulkier this way, but a Techart or Techart-like adapter made for the EVF-M why not? Mine works fine on Sony. With limited capabilities though so not sure if it would sell at Leica price actually. Techart could easily make one themselves i suppose though.

Edited March 15, 2024 by lct

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[Le Chef]

I simply don’t see the incentive for Leica to develop a whole new line of autofocus lenses when they already have their own L-mount lenses and those from Panasonic and Sigma. If you develop a new line of autofocus lenses from scratch that will be several years worth of work before they go on sale. If you use the M lenses as the basis, they will become bigger and heavier than the current M lenses to accommodate the electronics for autofocus. They will also be more expensive than M lenses as the electronics will not come for free.

In addition who will buy these lenses? Since M users seem to believe in manual focus it’s not likely them. If it’s an SL owner they already have L-mount lenses, and possibly may also have M lenses. So who will buy this likely not so small and not so light but more expensive line of lenses?

Edited March 15, 2024 by Le Chef