M11 vs. SL2-S at ISO 12500

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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2 hours ago, SrMi said:

It affects when comparing cameras with different ratios, I guess.

Equalized files are the only way to compare cameras, though uncalibrated ISO must be taken into account (curves shift left/right).

Not for me, really. I'm not interested comparing an iPhone to a GFX100 at the same output size (or CoC). I want to know what happens when I start trying to make the files fall apart at their native resolutions. The relative sizes P2P is working at are way too small to have any relevancy to the way I shoot and print. Everything looks good when you're being conservative. What I see when I start printing at A1 or A0 isn't what P2P says I should see if I were to rely on their figures.

I'm doing my own tests currently between the M11 and other cameras I own. Mostly the X1DII/907x at full resolution. The results so far are really interesting.

Gordon

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[SrMi]

58 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Not for me, really. I'm not interested comparing an iPhone to a GFX100 at the same output size (or CoC). I want to know what happens when I start trying to make the files fall apart at their native resolutions. The relative sizes P2P is working at are way too small to have any relevancy to the way I shoot and print. Everything looks good when you're being conservative. What I see when I start printing at A1 or A0 isn't what P2P says I should see if I were to rely on their figures.

I'm doing my own tests currently between the M11 and other cameras I own. Mostly the X1DII/907x at full resolution. The results so far are really interesting.

Gordon

Yes, P2P's PDR metering is not going to show you that. Note that P2P contains much more data than just PDR measurements.

I use the PDR data to see the maximum PDR, the base ISO, where the dual gain switch occurs, and if there is any noise reduction baked in.

P2P's Sensor Heat Maps should indicate what happens in extreme cases and how pleasing the result will be. However, I am still trying to understand it fully.

The best thing is what you are doing, doing your tests. You are experienced enough to know how to do it properly.

IMO, P2P is too often misused to prove a point rather than learning something about the sensor in a camera (drunkard and the lamppost allegory).

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by SrMi

[kiwidad]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:57 PM, SrMi said:

ISO, 12800, underexposed 3 stops and lifted in Lightroom +3.

(M11 top, SL2-S bottom)

 

 

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I must confess I am very relived to see this post of the M11 at high iso. shooting at 12k and 25k I noticed this banding so to speak on my M11 recently as was greatly concerned but it seems like it may be normal.

[hoolyproductions]

One of the reasons I got an SL2-S in 2021 was its performance in low light compared to the M10 I was using at the time. I very often shoot in music venues at 10000-25000 ISO (there were also other reasons, such as IBIS and wanting to use autofocus and a WYSIWYG viewfinder, plus those APO lenses) 

After a long break from M cameras (I was so enamoured with the SL2-S that I sold my M10 after a few months) I got an M11 a couple of months ago. I am *really* impressed by the low light performance and now don't hesitate to take my M11 to gigs where I would never have used my M10.

I'm still in the 'honeymoon' period I guess but lately I have only used my SL2-S occasionally when shooting in sub-zero winter storms and for one music gig in a larger venue where I wanted to use the 24-90mm zoom.

As I am not a professional I am not sure for how long I want to keep/maintain two different camera systems (it feels quite extravagent to my minimalist sensibilities). I'm very happy with both but for the time being it is the M11 that really 'sings' to me to use it.

[hoolyproductions]

A recent shot at 16,000 ISO, 1/125th second. I applied Lightroom noise reduction but it looked quite okay before applying, almost not needed.

 

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[SrMi]

On 1/20/2022 at 12:22 PM, shirubadanieru said:

12800 the SL2S does a much better job to my eyes, very clean with no banding at all. M11 colors are more contrasty but I prefer the approach of the SL2S. This would definitely not be an ISO setting I’d be comfortable using with the M11, so it seems that the ceiling might be 12500 for me.

I believe you are referring to ISO 12800 images lifted by three stops. Yes, SL2-S looks better, but I consider that a theoretical situation that I have never encountered in practice.

[M11 for me]

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I did not read the full thread. Maybe that was posted already:

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Leica-SL2-S-versus-Leica-M11___1360_1379