Finally… peace and quiet 😅

[erniethemilk]

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14 minutes ago, LondonL said:

The M10 is still and will be for a long time quite a wonderful camera. 24mp is enough for 90% of my photography and that 10% when more pixels would be nice, is not enough to justify the M11. I didn't upgrade to the M10r for the same reasons. 

Exactly my thought process too. 

[RexGig0]

11 hours ago, AllNoAll said:

The Red Dot Forum guys did state that the new Visoflex could be backwards compatible with the M10, but they said it would be at a lower resolution than what it is capable of on the M11. I guess the M10 is only capably of outputting to around 2mp to an electronic viewing device.

I mostly want an external viewfinder, to help frame the shot, especially now that I have just ordered a pre-owned 25mm Zeiss lens, through the evil-bay. It would also be helpful at 28mm, because I wear eyeglasses while shooting. So, a high-resolution view is not an absolute requirement, for my shooting.  If the newer Visoflex is any better, at all, compared to the Visoflex 020, will be an added bonus, plus, being more future-proof, should I later acquire/borrow/rent an M11-series camera.

Edited January 14, 2022 by RexGig0

[IkarusJohn]

3 hours ago, LondonL said:

The M10 is still and will be for a long time quite a wonderful camera. 24mp is enough for 90% of my photography and that 10% when more pixels would be nice, is not enough to justify the M11. I didn't upgrade to the M10r for the same reasons. 

To be honest, the 50MP of the X1D II was fantastic.  If I wanted  more MP, I’d go back to that system.  I think I’ve said before that I see more MP as a bi-product of improved sensor performance. I have no interest in it as a goal in itself.

I do worry that the M11 looks like it is surrendering a bit of its uniqueness.  Is a 60MP, pixel binning, cropping permanent live view metering development really a step forward?

PS - sorry, this post is polluting the one thing the OP was wanting to move away from.

Edited January 14, 2022 by IkarusJohn

[AllNoAll]

13 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

To be honest, the 50MP of the X1D II was fantastic.  If I wanted  more MP, I’d go back to that system.  I think I’ve said before that I see more MP as a bi-product of improved sensor performance. I have no interest in it as a goal in itself.

I do worry that the M11 looks like it is surrendering a bit of its uniqueness.  Is a 60MP, pixel binning, cropping permanent live view metering development really a step forward?

PS - sorry, this post is polluting the one thing the OP was wanting to move away from.

I hear you on this! I was actually thinking about the 50mp Hassleblad sensor in relation to this last night. I was thinking, for the same money as the M10/M11 you can get a Hasselblad 907x, which is one beautiful camera! But the build quality of my M10 is next level over the Hasselblad! When I pick up my M10, and it’s brass construction (with bottom plate), it just feels like quality! I can say the same thing about my 60 year old M2! Word just don’t do the M justice, when describing how they fell in the hand!

[IkarusJohn]

39 minutes ago, AllNoAll said:

I hear you on this! I was actually thinking about the 50mp Hassleblad sensor in relation to this last night. I was thinking, for the same money as the M10/M11 you can get a Hasselblad 907x, which is one beautiful camera! But the build quality of my M10 is next level over the Hasselblad! When I pick up my M10, and it’s brass construction (with bottom plate), it just feels like quality! I can say the same thing about my 60 year old M2! Word just don’t do the M justice, when describing how they fell in the hand!

That’s part of it, for sure.  The X1D is the best camera I have held in my hands - it fit my hand perfectly, the haptics were perfect and the menu was better than anything Leica offers.  But that’s an aside.

The ultimate factor for me was one of format.  I’ve loved my Hasselblads (I’ve had 3), but they are medium format systems.  You never get away from that fundamental fact - it changes everything.  The Sony 50c sensor in the X1D is fabulous, but it requires a larger body, larger lenses and a whole host of accomodations which are belied by the diminutive size and wonderful haptics of the X1D, and the beautiful 907x.

I went back to the M camera, and the 36x24 format (keeping only my SWC) because it is mature, there is huge choice of fine lenses and the sensors have come into their own.  In use, the “full frame” format offers greater flexibility and usability for what I do as an amateur.  I will never accept the bold claims that this or that camera is in “medium format territory” - it just ain’t so.  But, I can live with the compromises of the smaller format, enjoy its advantages, and to be honest, I’m not that good a photographer to really make the most of what medium format has to offer.

[shanefking]

1 hour ago, AllNoAll said:

I hear you on this! I was actually thinking about the 50mp Hassleblad sensor in relation to this last night. I was thinking, for the same money as the M10/M11 you can get a Hasselblad 907x, which is one beautiful camera! But the build quality of my M10 is next level over the Hasselblad! When I pick up my M10, and it’s brass construction (with bottom plate), it just feels like quality! I can say the same thing about my 60 year old M2! Word just don’t do the M justice, when describing how they fell in the hand!

You could also pick up a Used Leica S007 for about $5600 USD.

But then again, we use M’s partly because of how ridiculously compact they are, on top of the build quality and image quality.

If I didn’t use my camera for work, I think I could have eked out a few more years out of my M9.  I expect the M10 will last me a long time.

 

[AllNoAll]

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46 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

That’s part of it, for sure.  The X1D is the best camera I have held in my hands - it fit my hand perfectly, the haptics were perfect and the menu was better than anything Leica offers.  But that’s an aside.

The ultimate factor for me was one of format.  I’ve loved my Hasselblads (I’ve had 3), but they are medium format systems.  You never get away from that fundamental fact - it changes everything.  The Sony 50c sensor in the X1D is fabulous, but it requires a larger body, larger lenses and a whole host of accomodations which are belied by the diminutive size and wonderful haptics of the X1D, and the beautiful 907x.

I went back to the M camera, and the 36x24 format (keeping only my SWC) because it is mature, there is huge choice of fine lenses and the sensors have come into their own.  In use, the “full frame” format offers greater flexibility and usability for what I do as an amateur.  I will never accept the bold claims that this or that camera is in “medium format territory” - it just ain’t so.  But, I can live with the compromises of the smaller format, enjoy its advantages, and to be honest, I’m not that good a photographer to really make the most of what medium format has to offer.

Very insightful!

[PCPix]

On 1/13/2022 at 9:57 PM, AllNoAll said:

Thank you for this thread!! With all the M11 coverage I’m seeing today it has me second guessing my recent purchase of a standard M10. I love the baseplate that is almost the same as my M2! Tell me 24mp is enough!!

Certainly it’s enough!

 I just traded my M10 for an M10R - only for the better highlight handling - not the extra resolution. All that does is slow down my computer and fill up the hard dives faster 😉

[Mikep996]

"Certainly it’s enough!"

Heck, as I've mentioned previously, one of my best prints - a 16x20 - was taken with a 6MP Nikon back in the old days when 6 MP was "enough."

I recently bought an M10R BP because I wanted the BP for the appearance but an M10P would have given me everything I wanted as far as an "upgrade" over my M10.  I like the perspective correction and...uh, well, that's about it!  Don't care about the reduced shutter noise - in fact, I don't care for the 'quality' of the sound - and haven't seen any so far advantage TO ME of having 40MP vs 24MP.

OTOH, I do see the advantage to more MP if the idea is to achieve by cropping what was previously produced with a longer lens.  Typically I carry a 28 on the camera and a 50 in my pocket but just the 28 might suffice.  Hmm, maybe I should experiment with mounting the 21 on the camera instead of the 28 and carrying the 50. 

[steveBK]

Don't forget to post in the M11 forum in the M12 post to keep the mania going

[Ko.Fe.]

On 1/13/2022 at 5:05 PM, IkarusJohn said:

 There have been times when I have wondered if I've logged into DPReview by mistake!

Common, here are some technically challenged folks, but Calgarian  bozos won't be ever surpassed.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[shanefking]

8 hours ago, Mikep996 said:

"Certainly it’s enough!"

Heck, as I've mentioned previously, one of my best prints - a 16x20 - was taken with a 6MP Nikon back in the old days when 6 MP was "enough."

I recently bought an M10R BP because I wanted the BP for the appearance but an M10P would have given me everything I wanted as far as an "upgrade" over my M10.  I like the perspective correction and...uh, well, that's about it!  Don't care about the reduced shutter noise - in fact, I don't care for the 'quality' of the sound - and haven't seen any so far advantage TO ME of having 40MP vs 24MP.

OTOH, I do see the advantage to more MP if the idea is to achieve by cropping what was previously produced with a longer lens.  Typically I carry a 28 on the camera and a 50 in my pocket but just the 28 might suffice.  Hmm, maybe I should experiment with mounting the 21 on the camera instead of the 28 and carrying the 50. 

It would be difficult to get the background separation of a good 50 1.4 with a 28.  I was thinking of doing that on a trip next week with a 35, leaving my 50 at home.  But in the end I decided the 50’s magic is irresistible 😍

[shanefking]

7 hours ago, steveBK said:

Don't forget to post in the M11 forum in the M12 post to keep the mania going

Thats pure evil.

I love it!

[sutlore]

The base plate is the best invenovation from Leica in mid 20th century, imho.

I could not believe that Leica get rid of it. 😅

[jakontil]

On 1/15/2022 at 2:26 AM, AllNoAll said:

I hear you on this! I was actually thinking about the 50mp Hassleblad sensor in relation to this last night. I was thinking, for the same money as the M10/M11 you can get a Hasselblad 907x, which is one beautiful camera! But the build quality of my M10 is next level over the Hasselblad! When I pick up my M10, and it’s brass construction (with bottom plate), it just feels like quality! I can say the same thing about my 60 year old M2! Word just don’t do the M justice, when describing how they fell in the hand!

Just remember dont pick the wrong m11 version 😀

[rramesh]

Now that my M10-P is one the last models that comes with a base plate, I have a question?

Does Leica or any 3rd party engraves base plates.

[jakontil]

3 hours ago, rramesh said:

Now that my M10-P is one the last models that comes with a base plate, I have a question?

Does Leica or any 3rd party engraves base plates.

Iactually, the m10 R took that crown 😏

[rramesh]

37 minutes ago, jakontil said:

Iactually, the m10 R took that crown 😏

I think the last serial number of the M10-R will be very valuable. 😀

[Mikep996]

I readily admit then when I bought my first Leica - an M2 - i thought the base plate was the dumbest thing I had ever seen.  No other camera I was familiar with 'needed' a baseplate.  What a PITA!  

 

Fast forward many years to now and I can't imagine an M camera without a baseplate.  The fact that Leica did is disappointing. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jakontil]

Baseplate, hate it or love it, that’s the ID number of an M 😀