News on the Heritage line Summaron 35mm 2.8

[Mark T]

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Hi Folks,

For a number of years there have been rumors about Leica reissuing the above lens. These rumors ran alongside the then only - rumored Noctilux 50mm 1.2, which has since come to be. So the rumors appeared to be legitimate. Further, a slow 35mm would make an ideal replacement for the discontinued Summarit line.

Here is an example of a post about the lens: https://leicarumors.com/2020/08/23/new-leica-rumors-two-new-vintage-historical-heritage-lenses-and-a-new-m10-p-black-painted-special-edition-camera.aspx/

There are other such examples if you search around. Does anyone have news or insight as to what may, or may not, be happening with this lens? I once had a 35mm Summaron and really loved the pictures from it (just as many people now enjoy the 28mm 5.6). A modern 35mm Summaron would be a great lens to have available. 

Thanks,

 

Mark

Edited December 30, 2021 by Mark T

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[a.noctilux]

Why not ?

In my convictions, this re-edition Summaron 2.8/35mm would be a flop,

not because lack of quality if I rely on my multiple units that I happend to know well.

These are not rare lenses, about 35,000 units were made.

We can buy used & nice copies of 2.8/35 easily, not the case with Thambar/28 Summaron/1.2 Noctilux.

[adan]

a.noctilux said what I wanted to say, but hadn't figured out the words for yet.

Bottom line - to make a 35mm f/2.8 Summaron re-issue worth Leica's time and money, the average used prices of the originals would need to about triple. Or more. (Which they may do someday - but not yet).

I expect Leica would like to get at least $3500 each to cover expenses and make a profit. A hard sell when the originals are generally $750-$1400 (with a few outliers ±).

The 35mm Summarit-M f/2.5 was for most practical purposes a 35 Summaron-M f/2.8 (Leica certainly stole the external cosmetics from the Summaron). Modernized with 6-bit coding, and new glass (so admittedly it "drew" somewhat differently). But even that apparently was no longer worth the time and money - since Leica dropped the whole Summarit line altogether recently.

A 35mm Summilux pre-ASPH replica - for $7000! That's probably more in line with what Leica would do, these days.

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Edited December 30, 2021 by adan

[Jeff S]

@Steven has reported that a 35 Summaron reissue is no longer on the table.  I’ll let him weigh in here on what might be coming instead.

Jeff

[pippy]

1 hour ago, adan said:

a.noctilux said what I wanted to say, but hadn't figured out the words for yet.......Bottom line - to make a 35mm f/2.8 Summaron re-issue worth Leica's time and money, the average used prices of the originals would need to about triple.........the originals are generally $750-$1400......

Yes; I was thinking much the same thing.

Nice idea but I seriously doubt it would ever prove to be popular enough when it's so simple to buy an original for what would be considered a 'bargain-basement' price in Leica-World terms compared with what Leica would have to charge for the new one.

If they were to re-issue a Steel-Rim Summilux, however, they might stand a better chance of selling all they can make - especially if they do both the  Silver-Chrome and Black-Paint options - as the originals of these things tend to be priced in the five-figure bracket.

Philip.

Edited December 30, 2021 by pippy

[insideline]

57 minutes ago, pippy said:

Yes; I was thinking much the same thing.

Nice idea but I seriously doubt it would ever prove to be popular enough when it's so simple to buy an original for what would be considered a 'bargain-basement' price in Leica-World terms compared with what Leica would have to charge for the new one.

If they were to re-issue a Steel-Rim Summilux, however, they might stand a better chance of selling all they can make - especially if they do both the  Silver-Chrome and Black-Paint options - as the originals of these things tend to be priced in the five-figure bracket.

Philip.

Completely agree on the re-issue Steel Rim idea!

[cboy]

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The summarit line, which is essentially the modern summaron as mentioned, was a failed attempt to draw those who were 'budget' conscious and didn't need the speed. I don't think Leica go down that route again given the MIC lenses have taken over that arena

Higher tier fast lenses are Leicas' (only) profitable route it seems. And expensive reissues.lol

However I wouldn't be surprised if those MIC lenses, which are nipping at the heels of Leica, will eventually reach the same level of quality. This would put Leica at a disadvantage at an already niche market.  Super uber quality for a premium is their model. Seems Leica has been squeezed into the position. Whether Leica can sustain that veil is anyones guess

It's a shame Leica can't produce those types of lenses within this economic climate. I'd certainly would like the idea of an revised 35 summaron even though I already have the summarit

Btw let's factor in Zeiss and Voigtlander,which essentially a Japanese lens manufacturer is also in the mix that together produces more already a bunch of more than adequate 35s...

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by cboy

[Danner]

In my estimation, such a lens would need to be of the finest finishes and mechanics, with optics having a vintage rendering, and proudly priced.  Even then, I would not likely be tempted.  All that said, I hope Leica does it.

[Mark T]

Thanks for all the ideas folks. Given the Noctilux is well and truly out now, it does seem likely that the proposed Summaron is not going to happen now. Your comments do make a lot of sense. 

As mentioned, there were lots of these lenses produced in the past. It's funny that in the heyday of Leica rangefinder, these slower, smaller, high quality lenses were so popular. It seems that modern Leica users only want faster lenses now, even though there is much less need for them with high ISO sensors. Especially compared to 1950/60's film.

Anyway, thanks again for your collective thoughts. 

Mark

[UliWer]

On 12/30/2021 at 11:45 AM, a.noctilux said:

These are not rare lenses, about 35,000 units were made.

That's what I thought as well - until I learned that Leitz designed a 1:2.8/35mm Summaron with aspherical lenses and made about half a dozen examples. It was their first try with aspherical elements, even earlier than the 1:1.2/50 Noctilux. They were not able to produce them with reliable quality and so the lens design disappeared in their cupboards. Since the problems of producing aspherical elements are solved now...

Though on the other hand the 1.2.4/35mm Summarit also had an aspherical element and I am sure the 1:2.5/35mm had ist as well (even when it was not declared). So the only reason to reintroduce a "Summaron asph." would be the much higher price tag for the "retro" design. 

 

[Mark T]

On 1/1/2022 at 12:13 AM, UliWer said:

So the only reason to reintroduce a "Summaron asph." would be the much higher price tag for the "retro" design. 

 

Yep this is the main driver as I see it. A new lens with the heavy but beautiful brass/chrome construction, tiny size, and a real vintage look, with natural vignette and nil distortion. The pictures from this lens definitely look different to modern pictures, in a way which appeals to me. 35mm aficionado, the late Tom Abrahamsson, referred to the 35/2.8 Summaron as a real sleeper lens, with image quality that exceeded the Summicron in many way. Not that someone else's opinion should mean anything more that that, but just to show it was a really good lens appreciated by many that used it. Anyway, I think this has sadly been put to bed now.

Cheers,

Mark