An M10M companion: On a GAS scale of 1-5, am I a 6??

[augustwest100]

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Hello all and happy holidays! I struggled to decide where to post this question, and ended up here because I realize the issue is that I love using my M10M and don't want to part with it. One way to pose the question:

What would be a better autofocus, color, interchangeable lens companion to the M10M for the 20%-30% of the time I want or need color or autofocus? 

My M10M is perfect for urban street photography and some of my personal projects. Other areas that interest me include macro, landscape, outdoor environmental portraits, travel (not much of that going on these days but I'm an optimist). I believe there are other posts that match up the size and light weight of the crop sensor CL against the IBIS, weather sealing, full-frame sensor and chunkiness of the SL2-S, but I was wondering if having an M10M would influence the comparison in any meaningful way. 

On the one hand, I can imagine carrying both an M10M and a CL in the same bag for a "best of both worlds" kind of experience, allowing me to take both, or take one or the other, depending on my needs at the moment. However, the combined weight of both cameras is probably the same as the single SL2-S, and I would have to apply the crop factor to any of the M lenses I carry, making their effective focal length more of a challenge. Another way to think of it is that getting a CL will probably lead to me using my M10M more. Using the SL2-S will probably lead to me choosing to take one or the other, and using the M10M less, but in a very specific situation, namely street photography.

I really had no idea I would love my M10M so much that it would cause me to buy another camera 🙂

Thanks in advance for any advice or wisdom - you guys and gals always have more of that than I ever will.

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[Photon42]

Before you get into the CL rabbit hole, you want to form your own opinion on Leica's future strategy regarding APSC cameras, and the CL form factor in particular. If you are into portraits and have M lenses, I would either look into the SL2 or just look elsewhere for a mirrorless system. If I am out photographing on the street, I cannot imagine switching between completely different cameras, in general. Maybe I am too limited for that. I had a CL for 18 months or so, and sold it (with lenses), because I felt already at this time that Leica does not really stand behind this format. Yes, you can buy other L-mount cameras from other brands, but they will work as well with M lenses as the Leica L-mount cameras.

[Keith (M)]

2 hours ago, augustwest100 said:

What would be a better autofocus, color, interchangeable lens companion to the M10M for the 20%-30% of the time I want or need color or autofocus? 

 

For me, an A7III plus 28 - 75mm and 70 - 210mm zooms.  Oh and a Novoflex NEX/LEM adaptor for when I decide to use my M lenses.  

[augustwest100]

6 minutes ago, Keith (M) said:

For me, an A7III plus 28 - 75mm and 70 - 210mm zooms.  Oh and a Novoflex NEX/LEM adaptor for when I decide to use my M lenses.  

In the holiday spirit, I may have to say bah humbug to this one... 🙂

I didn't love the way my M lenses played with the Sony sensor (I had the A7rII and then the A9), and I didn't love the menus and button layout. Not the end of the world, I know.For my purposes, I would trade the AF system of the Sony (which I do believe is much better at present) for the haptics and aesthetic of the Leica SL system. Just wish it were a little lighter!

 

[Jeff S]

I have an M10, M10 Monochrom and SL2.  But the M10-M is never accompanied by another camera when I shoot.  The reason for my having it is for staying within a b/w mindset and workflow; color is not a distraction. The M10 is for when I still want an M, still using RF with 28, 35 or 50 focal lengths, but want a color option. The SL2 serves complementary needs, using SL zooms only, when wider/longer focal lengths, weather sealing, IBIS, AF, etc matter.

Jeff

Edited December 28, 2021 by Jeff S

[Rosebud55]

I have the M246 instead of the M10 and also the CL. The CL is so useful as it is autofocus and can take M lenses. Yes I know the crop factor but it is still a useful backup to the M246. An alternative would be the X100v which I also have although I do now prefer the colours of the CL overall.

even though there is uncertainty regarding the apsc cameras by Leica, I would still recommend the CL as such a well made camera will last quite a few years. It is also a fun camera to use too.

good luck!

 

Rosie

[mmradman]

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M246 with Nikon Z7, each with native lenses. Nikon Z platform is very friendly to third party lenses via suitable adapters. 
As mentioned by Jeoff, if I go out I usually have one or the other rarely both systems together.

For me M246 is the king for poor light situations, it could be night or dark/bleak seasonal conditions, also when I want to achieve “documentary” effect.  
 

Colour has its place but that is mostly daylight and fair weather and Z7 is superb with native ISO of 64 and IBIS.  Be mindful Z7 is first generation full frame and there are other models in Z family, native lens are superb and more affordable than Leica L counterparts, not to mention cover wider shooting envelope.

[Mattes]

None of the non-monochrome subjects you mention require AF. If it‘s mostly color you look for and want to avoid a crop sensor, why not get an M10? 

That said, I am using crop cameras (Fuji) as well as an M10 and and M10 Monochrom. The image quality the crop sensors achieve is by far good enough for my requirements. So may be a CL with a basic set of AF (Zoom?) lenses is worth a second consideration, since it‘s not more expensive than an M10.

[augustwest100]

2 hours ago, Mattes said:

None of the non-monochrome subjects you mention require AF. If it‘s mostly color you look for and want to avoid a crop sensor, why not get an M10? 

That said, I am using crop cameras (Fuji) as well as an M10 and and M10 Monochrom. The image quality the crop sensors achieve is by far good enough for my requirements. So may be a CL with a basic set of AF (Zoom?) lenses is worth a second consideration, since it‘s not more expensive than an M10.

Interesting when you list them out that way, they don’t really require autofocus, I think the only real need for autofocus would be travel photography. I previously traveled with an M240 and it was a little stressful, but that was before I had practiced zone focusing. I think I would like the ability to have autofocus and also have close focus option, but the question comes back to whether that lends more to the SL2S or if the CL would fit nicely in that niche. 

There is clearly no single answer, but I appreciate the thoughts! I was just checking out the macro section on the CL forum and the images are really beautiful, though that is a testament to the photographers more than the gear! 

[geoffreyg]

Went with CL and M10M. The CL is for color, rapid travel use, snaps. The M10M for travel and serious art shots. The SL2 is too big, heavy, but for others, a viable option. 
Apart from some menu struggles with CL, very happy w the choice. CL shots yield wonders in shadows and highlights. M10M is of course magic on its own, especially in low or subdued light. 

[eon]

I think a Q2 would complement your M10M perfectly!

It gives you a lot:
color,
the Leica image quality,
autofocus,
close focus,
ergonomics you´re used to.

And it simplifies things for you with one camera for color and another for b&w. No moving lenses between them either. 

[geotrupede]

For BW street MM is best. But for all the rest SL2S is super fun. I have both, plus some other colour M but use always the MM for street, with flash, and 28 with yellow filter. All other lenses, adapters and fun and joyful gadgets go to the SL2S. To me is like one is serious commitment and the other is relax and fun. Both can exist and should! Whatever you do, enjoy 😉 AndG  Happy New Year to all!

[augustwest100]

This makes sense, as does the post that says they do not carry M10M with a color camera so that they have the B&W mindset.

But limiting the gadgets to the SL2S? Unlikely…

All the little M jewels call to me and say, “we’re tiny, we’re light, we’re sharp, take us home with you!”

[augustwest100]

On 12/31/2021 at 10:49 AM, eon said:

I think a Q2 would complement your M10M perfectly!

It gives you a lot:
color,
the Leica image quality,
autofocus,
close focus,
ergonomics you´re used to.

And it simplifies things for you with one camera for color and another for b&w. No moving lenses between them either. 

The perfect complement would be an interchangeable lens Q or a full frame CL

Your suggestion is always a good option: instead of getting a 28mm M lens, just buy a Q2 and you get the lens you want and the body comes with it!

[RexGig0]

My Monochrom is a 246, and I also have an M10, but, I think I can relate to the question. I strongly considered adding a CL, as it made plenty of sense, with the ability to use M lenses, with an adapter, as well as the newer L-Mount system lenses, with AF. Ultimately, however, I have kept my DSLR equipment, so, never bought a CL, and have not come close to buying an SL-series camera, either. Macro remains important, and my Canon macro equipment was the best of the best, at any price, when I built my working kit, from 2010 to 2017. I retired in 2018, but still use my macro gear for field work, in the “citizen scientist” role. (I was not a professional photographer, but needed good macro and close-range gear, for my duties as a first responder and public servant.)

For a shooter who does not need to shoot macro as seriously as a citizen scientist, and does not need to use super-telephoto lenses for chasing birds and wildlife, I would think that a CL or SL-series camera makes plenty of sense, to complement a Monochrom. The CL is certainly the more-compact option.

There is nothing wrong with mixing sensor sizes. My “team” of Canon DSLRs includes a pair of the 7D Mark II, with their APS-C sensors, and 5Ds R and 5D Mark IV cameras, with their full-35mm-frame sensors. The same principle would apply, when using CL and Leica-M cameras.

Edited January 2, 2022 by RexGig0

[rtai]

I would like a second M10M as a companion to my M10M. I don’t like changing lenses. 21/28 would be a good combo for street.

[strohscw]

Which camera it should be depends on the needs.
If you only want to shoot B/W, then of course a second M10M would be optimal, identical battery and accessories.
If you would like to have the color capabilities, then the M10-R would be optimal, same pixel counts, same accessories and all lenses can be used on both bodies.
The Q2 is a great camera, brings extra autofocus if you need it. But I decided against it because I can't use the lens on both bodies, the accessories are different, and so is the battery.
I originally planned to use the Hasselblad X1D II as my sole color camera, a great camera with great lenses, but like the Q2 just a different system.

And then there are the great Leica lenses that I wanted to use in B/W and color.
Long story short, I finally decided on the M10-R and can now shoot also in color without needing anything else.
This is also why I didn't want to wait for the M11, because I don't miss anything on my two M10s, except maybe a better EVF for extreme angles and my R lenses -- and that's supposed to come with the M11 and be compatible with the M10.

I hope this helps you decide.

[augustwest100]

An M10M with an M10R makes perfect sense, but would just add to my GAS 🙂 

Then I’d be looking for an autofocus option to serve as an M10M/M10R companion…

So it seems that my real question is whether to go with full frame weight of the SL system or the compact setup of the CL system as a compliment to the M system.

I really don’t even need autofocus, as was pointed out already. I think this need comes from when I was originally exposed (pardon the pun) to photography, which was during the film SLR days when manual focus was phasing out and autofocus was on its way in. I don’t really need any fancy autofocus, just a single point in the middle, where I can point to focus, and then reframe. I’m already sort of used to this in the manual sense with the M camera where the focus patch is in the middle.

There is clearly no answer to this question. It could be a lighter SL2, or it could be a beefier CL2, or it could be an M11 with some sort of adapter that allows for single point AF of manual lenses…gasp! 

Ok, my GAS is now at a level 7.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Erato]

Q2 or Q2M

[LeicaS2]

So what did you decide?

I had the same question over a year ago and got an M10 to give me color when not using the M10M as I wanted the lenses to work on both. I would not carry both at once.