Leica SL 21,.. plz

[BernardC]

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There's no denying the appeal of medium format for landscapes. I was going to mention that the best "21" on the market is probably the 24 in the S lineup, but that's a very expensive option, especially if you buy a new S3 and a kit of lenses.

[Simone_DF]

Looks like Sigma is listening to you folks. A new 20mm F2.0 DG DN is coming next month

 

[jaapv]

I am rather puzzled. Leica is a small company, as camera companies go, and it is completely impossible to develop lenses and cameras at the breakneck speed that some customers seem to demand. So they were smart enough to create the L-mount alliance, to offer enough diversity for the present-day market. Is this really not enough? (This picture should be updated to include a number of recent offerings too 🙄 )

 

Besides, what objection is there against using an M lens?   AF is neither here nor there on a 21 mm lens.

 

 

 

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[hwilms]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

I am rather puzzled. Leica is a small company, as camera companies go, and it is completely impossible to develop lenses and cameras at the breakneck speed that some customers seem to demand.

I couldn't agree more. In addition Leica lenses are quite expensive, so Leica has to think twice (thrice, ...) what lenses to create and offer. 28mm is a Leica tradition and that might have been the reason for offering this focal length first, although there is a 35mm available and a high (?) demand for wider angle primes. As much as I'd love to see a 135mm Summicron, I bet that this will never happen.

There is a reason for the L-Mount-Alliance. 

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, hwilms said:

I couldn't agree more. In addition Leica lenses are quite expensive, so Leica has to think twice (thrice, ...) what lenses to create and offer. 

Except the 21 and 24mm were announced in 2018 and supposed to be released in 2020, according to the roadmap.

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[FrozenInTime]

Guess there is still more money to be made with M lenses.

There may be a trickle down with L-mount Alliance buyers ... or they may be completely satisfied with Sigma and Panasonic , in which case there will always be more money in M lenses.

[Andrew Gough]

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Fast wide lenses are a requirement for many photographers, and I do not agree that the M lenses are the same. If you want or need AF speed and accuracy in a fast wide, the reality is that no manual focus M lens will give you that - I have tried. Don't get me wrong, M lenses are great lenses for their intended use.

In terms of wide open performance, the SL lenses are substantially better than their M equivalents. Non of the wide Summilux's, approach the mtf's of the wide SL lenses at F2.0. The only M lens that matches it's SL counterpart, is the newly announced 35mm M APO Summicron. 

If, and I say if, they are delaying development of SL lenses to produce M lenses, then they are doomed to repeat the same mistakes that they did with the R system. This would mean abandoning all of the development costs associated with the current/announced SL lenses and system. If Leica wants to truly see the SL system become a professional system, then they need to develop it a lot further.

Delays like we have seen, will only reduce the existing customer base for this system. I have had the M system, and while it is useful for personal photography, AF and the SL system are where it's at for professional use. Many of us want to see the Leica part of the system grow. We also want to see the AF improve to the same standards of the competitors. This is entirely achievable if Leica deployed the resources to do so. 

You cannot succeed by announcing  and delaying products unreasonably. Regardless of Leica's size, marketing forces will prevail. Eventually, people tire of waiting and abandon the system. This hurts Leica, Sigma and Panasonic and the whole L mount. They have created something that could be much more than its individual parts, and all encompassing system for photography and video. Not capitalizing on that, is a big mistake IMHO.

We are only asking for previously announced lenses...

Edited December 22, 2021 by Andrew Gough

[jaapv]

32 minutes ago, Andrew Gough said:

If you want or need AF speed and accuracy in a fast wide, the reality is that no manual focus M lens will give you that

That runs contrary to my Summilux 24 experience - well, it does not do AF very well   The accuracy part is no problem.

[augustwest100]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

I am rather puzzled. Leica is a small company, as camera companies go, and it is completely impossible to develop lenses and cameras at the breakneck speed that some customers seem to demand. So they were smart enough to create the L-mount alliance, to offer enough diversity for the present-day market. Is this really not enough? (This picture should be updated to include a number of recent offerings too 🙄 )

 

Besides, what objection is there against using an M lens?   AF is neither here nor there on a 21 mm lens.

 

 

 

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Every Sigma lens I have tried on the SL2S has been excellent. That includes the 24-70, the 28-70, the 45mm, and the 105 macro. I wish sigma had a 16-35 f4, but I know Panasonic has it. My M lenses usually stay on the M but I have had no issues with my SEM or the 35 Lux on the SL2S, and have enjoyed many of the Voigtlander options as well. My problem is too many choices, instead of not enough choice!

[Virob]

September 26 2018: Leica announced the SL 21/2

November 9  2021: rumour of Panasonic L mount 18/1.8

December 21 2021: rumour of Sigma L mount 20/2

Which will be available first.🤔

 

[jaapv]

And for  fast wideangle, Panasonic has an excellent 24/1.8 and they are working on a 1.8 18...

[jrp]

I agree that it’s good to have the choices that the l-mount alliance offers.

Has anyone tried a selection of the, say 24mm lenses available in f1.8, f2 or f3.5, and come to any general conclusions?  Yes, there will be an edge sharpness difference, but colour / warmth, global / micro contrast, are also likely to be signature for each lens range.  Price is also a factor. I might buy a sub-£500 lens as a stop gap, until the Leicas are released, but probably not a £900 one. 

[aksclix]

7 hours ago, jaapv said:

I am rather puzzled. Leica is a small company, as camera companies go, and it is completely impossible to develop lenses and cameras at the breakneck speed that some customers seem to demand. So they were smart enough to create the L-mount alliance, to offer enough diversity for the present-day market. Is this really not enough? (This picture should be updated to include a number of recent offerings too 🙄 )

 

Besides, what objection is there against using an M lens?   AF is neither here nor there on a 21 mm lens.

 

 

 

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Well, Leica has opened its doors to more users in the recent past and hence the demand for a wide variety of lenses! I have not touched a pro Leica before mid 2020! I did have a P&S typ 109.. 

slow production rates are fine but total silence for 3 years after a lens gets announced on the roadmap? That’s outrageous… it indicates there’s either lack of people or lack of vision or lack of money or lack of infrastructure.. don’t know.. everyone wants it because they genuinely like the Leica quality.. 

I own so many cameras and can be the most unbiased customer there is.. and I admit liking the SL2 over the 100s, a1, R5, z7 etc… for all purpose shooting I only want to use the SL2.. the other systems are for very specific needs where I either need a super fast action camera or a super high resolution landscape camera… 

 

[jaapv]

Yes, but with Sigma and Panasonic your can still shoot your SL2 with impeccable lenses. That is the whole point of the L alliance.

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, Andrew Gough said:

We also want to see the AF improve to the same standards of the competitors. This is entirely achievable if Leica deployed the resources to do so. 

That's not correct. Leica has little to no way to influence AF performances. The autofocus implemented in Leica cameras is 100% Panasonic. Leica only makes minor adjustments like UI (ie green box instead of crossed square), and optimization based on slightly different core hardware.

[Simone_DF]

46 minutes ago, jrp said:

Has anyone tried a selection of the, say 24mm lenses available in f1.8, f2 or f3.5, and come to any general conclusions?  Yes, there will be an edge sharpness difference, but colour / warmth, global / micro contrast, are also likely to be signature for each lens range.  Price is also a factor. I might buy a sub-£500 lens as a stop gap, until the Leicas are released, but probably not a £900 one. 

I have the Sigma 12-24, the Sigma 24 f/3.5 and also a Voigtlander 21mm f/1.8 (in M mount).

All three are excellent options and anybody looking to add a wide to their bag can't go wrong with either of these.

Actually I find the Sigma 24mm so good I'm not even going to consider the Summicron at 10x the price.

[Stef63]

My apologies for not understanding.  What type of shots would someone miss with a 21 wide prime manual focus versus an AF lens?  I see a lot of people in this thread wanting or needing AF but I did not see the practical advantage explained of AF over MF on these type of wide lenses. Again I can miss the point, but please enlighten me.

As for lens quality between an M or an SL lens I see there could be an argument based on previous SL lenses that the SL21 is to be expected to be excellent.  So anyone wanting an SL21 based on expected lens quality and impatiently waiting for it, you get my understanding. But the AF argument … please tell me. 

[aksclix]

31 minutes ago, Stef63 said:

My apologies for not understanding.  What type of shots would someone miss with a 21 wide prime manual focus versus an AF lens?  I see a lot of people in this thread wanting or needing AF but I did not see the practical advantage explained of AF over MF on these type of wide lenses. Again I can miss the point, but please enlighten me.

As for lens quality between an M or an SL lens I see there could be an argument based on previous SL lenses that the SL21 is to be expected to be excellent.  So anyone wanting an SL21 based on expected lens quality and impatiently waiting for it, you get my understanding. But the AF argument … please tell me. 

the whole world is marching towards "automation" of everything!! do we still need to justify an AF vs MF lens? why don't everybody around the world make ONLY MF lenses for wide angle purposes? why did they even think people would need AF on a wide angle lens.. why are different companies wasting money on putting an AF mechanism on wide angle lenses while manual focusing is enough? I fail to understand why this is even a point of debate... some people want AF and some don't.. there is NO right or wrong.. and nobody needs to justify their needs for an AF to anybody.. 

 

having said that, while shooting at infinity is how the wide angle lenses are generally used, there are several occasions where one can take advantage of having an AF on a wide angle lens.. 

1. With touch screen capture, I want to QUICKLY capture something just by tapping my finger on any a part of the screen..

2. I want to use autofocus while capturing a wide angle portrait of someone with expansive background..

3. Panasonic's focus stacking feature in camera needs an AF lens to make that feature work.. it is a phenomenal technology to have and one cannot achieve that with manual focus lenses

4. why should people with good eyesight only get to play with the cameras they want to use? 

5. I am traveling by a bus or a train or just shooting on the move.. not because I can't be patient or don't have the time.. sometimes I just can't... I would love to quickly pull the camera out and have the AF help me get the job done.. 

I hope these 5 are enough for anyone who needs justification on why an autofocus wide angle lens could be useful!!!

 

[aksclix]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Yes, but with Sigma and Panasonic your can still shoot your SL2 with impeccable lenses. That is the whole point of the L alliance.

of course.. I will get the lumix 18 f1.8 when it comes but the argument is the same for any leica lens vs a similar panasonic L-mount offering.. 

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[jaapv]

5 minutes ago, aksclix said:

. Panasonic's focus stacking feature in camera needs an AF lens to make that feature work.. it is a phenomenal technology to have and one cannot achieve that with manual focus lenses

 

I thought this thread was about a Leica lens for the SL ??