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dougdarter

Are they really that bad?? Please let us know.

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Interesting to remember it was this time las year we first saw leaked pictures of the camera and the announcement, on Friday 15th, if I recall. I think it's turned out pretty well. I'm very happy with the M8.

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Let's see...because you have 'nothing but praise' for the M8, you find it 'dispiriting' to read a forum that does not have 'nothing but praise' for the M8. Perhaps you would be best to delete yourself in that case. Fortunately there've been some selfless and ingenious people on this forum who rather than bury their heads in the sands of denial and declare the M8 perfect, have acknowledged the faults and failures and the right of M8 owners to discuss them, and then these fellows spent a great deal of time and effort helping the rest of us solve many of these problem issues. I for one am grateful that this forum hasn't bowed to the rooing of apologists and devolved into an M8 Kumbaya singalong.

 

As stated, I am merely trying to redress the balance a little. The comment 'delete yourself' is trite to the extreme, and as for being an apologist for the M8?? Where did you get this idea? I freely acknowledge that the camera has faults, and I knew this when I bought it. The discussions about such faults are useful. Other comments are unhelpful and destructive. I just wish that some of the posts were a little more objective.

 

I find that some posts are complaining about the tiniest of faults, which may be easily worked around, requiring very little effort from the photographer, and/or easily worked around in PP. Others, re-address percieved faults which have been already covered, and with a little use of the forum search facility, need not have been re-visited.

 

I never did expect this camera to be as easy to use as a point and shoot, or DSLR, and accordingly, am prepared to work harder to get a competent shot than I would have done with my 1D's. Reading between the lines, a lot of the percieved complaints received about the M8, could easily be the lack of understanding about range finder cameras, poor photographic skills, or unfair comparison with easier to use DSLRs.

 

This is why I'm attempting to re-dress the balance a little, in favour of the M8. I never once asked memmbers to 'sing it's praises', or say that it's the best camera ever', or try to 'egg the bread'. I was merely asking members to use a bit of objectivity, and say that they were satisfied with thier camera, warts and all. So there!

 

.............. exit stage left, an ostritch heading towards a sand dune singing 'Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya'........

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Guest guy_mancuso

Bottom line it is not on the selling block. I love the files, i have had it the first week of release and worked my ass off with many others here to get it under control with users and with Leica. It's been a long road with a lot of little and also a couple big issues. i had all of them including 2 SDS situations. Now frankly i been in digital a long time with many system and i have seen my share of issues with every one. the M8 maybe a few extra we would all care to not to have happened. It has . Leica and i have become close friends and been very receptive to any lists , advice, help, solutions and idea's that i could offer. no other company i have had this kind of great relationship with and at this point i will go to the wall with them and they know it. As new product and more experience leica gains in digital than the products will also get better. This forum has provided leica with a lot of insight from it's members that chose to work the issues and help make fixes and such. For those folks that put the time into it they deserve our respect and thanks, what they don't deserve is trolls and folks that just want to cry and not make it better.the insults have ben flying around here lately and it's pretty damn sickening. Just remember would you talk this way to someone in person, thought not . Than don't do it here, this is a place for us to meet and talk about issues that as a member you can help and if your not going to try and help someone else than you don't belong to a community of shooters.

 

now back to work for me, check in tonight. Just my little 2 cents

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The thing is, that as an newbie user (got my M8 just a couple of weeks ago), these remarks about back focus, software, etc. can be very scary! It takes a couple of weeks more to get over it and recognize that overall it is a superb product and as such the SMALL things pop up fairly big.

 

Now contemplating to buy another lens (got a 50mm Summicron) ... how to explain to my wife that NO we are not going to buy her a new car and yes I very much NEED this wide angle lens.

 

happy man, me, with problems like this ...

 

Bought my first DSLR about 1.5 years ago, used film and P&S digital before that. It is a Nikon D200. I had very noticeable backfocus with all lenses.

Contacted Nikon tech support and uploaded NEF images to him. First was with AF and he siad it looks find to me. Second image was manual focus of same subject. I said wait for the second to finish uploading and look at that. He did and suggested I send the camera in. I had owned the camera for 3 weeks before I sent it in and it was out of my hands for 3 weeks at the repair shop.

Every camera make/model will have some problems. That is just the way it is.

I have also sent in 3 on my Nikon lenses to be adjusted.

I now have 2 M8 bodies that focus real good and one lens, a 75 Cron, that backfocuses but I can compensate for it. Once I get around to it I'll send that lens in to be fixed.

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Every camera make/model will have some problems. That is just the way it is.

 

But Leica is percieved as being perfect and flawless - triggering overreaction when the idol turns out to have clay feet like everybody else. And let's be fair, the marketing handling of the IR thing was not perfect, to put it mildly. Water under the bridge, the camera now is all it promised to be....

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Guest Essemmlee

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I've just returned from a shoot of the 'Regata Storica" in Venice with my M8's and:

 

21/2.8 Elmarit

28/2.8 Elmarit

50/2 Cron

75/2 Cron

90 2.8 Elmarit

 

Every lens focused perfectly and not one deliberate shot was out of focus - except where I was a bit sharp with the action. The only issues were the usual occasional venetian blinds and that bothersome review of the previously taken image rather than the last one.

 

I could not complain - the sharpness of the resulting images have little to compare and my arms are no longer than they were when I left.

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If the ultimate goal is to produce the best quality, sharpest image possible from a 35mm format, then the M8 delivers in spades. Although a Leica M film user for years, I really never fully appreciated the quality of Leica lenses until now. I am amazed at the incredible sharpness, clarity and contrast of Leica glass which never seemed that apparent to me shooting film. Only now with the M8 do I see what everyone was talking about. My digital work flow had to be modified to the point where I can, in almost every case, eliminate "sharpening". So long Canon D5. I've met someone new.

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I just wish that some of the posts were a little more objective.

 

This is why I'm attempting to re-dress the balance a little, in favour of the M8. I

 

I see you joined the forum on 3rd September 2007 Doug. I guess you haven't had time to read the whole forum archive up to the date you joined - perhaps there is not too much to worry about. Those of us enjoying our M8's just tend to get on with the photography

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Doug,

 

"I was merely asking members to use a bit of objectivity, and say that they were satisfied with their camera, warts and all."

 

I might add civility to go along with that. I joined this forum last December when I first became seriously interested in Leica and the M8. The advice received along with the incredible knowledge many of the members here demonstrate has been extremely helpful. I have benefited greatly. But there is a trend, toward carping here which is troubling. I find I don't tune in that much now because of it. I also sympathize with those who have had serious problems with the M8 and lenses and think this forum has with energy tried to address those issues. Leica I think is doing the best they can too but some are never satisfied.

 

Yes - I love this little camera and it travels with me every day. I am not a pro but have been shooting for over 57 years. Many Nikons but at least six other varieties sit on shelves with many lenses. Most haven't gotten much use since I took delivery of the M8 and two Summilux-M lenses in February. When auto focus was introduced I found it helped to solve the fading eyesight problems brought on with age. The only real problem I have with the M8 is the rangefinder - just getting used to it after shooting the Nikon D2x auto-focus. The Leica Magnifier is great aid but I think a new pair of dedicated glasses is what is now needed. Practice, practice also. There is no doubt the images out of this camera are simply stunning!

 

It all goes in a Artist&Artisan Bag which I can carry all day, just about every day. None of my other equipment ever got this kind of use. That says something too doesn't it. I do appreciate this forum and thank those who really contribute positively - and you know who you are.

 

Richard

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Hi,

 

I've only been a member a day or so, and already I'm thinking about deleting this forum from my favourites:(

 

Why??

 

The continual and incessant 'trashing' of the M8, for whatever reason. It's pretty dispiriting, especially when I have nothing but praise for mine. Perhaps it's because I'm an ex film photographer, who has used M's in the past, and I can work with, and see through their idiosyncrasies.

 

Is it perhaps a case of only those who have a faulty copy who post, as one may expect, and those that are happy with theirs generally keep quiet?

 

I would like therefore, those that are happy with their camera, to please go on record here, and say so.

 

I am aware of perhaps 20 or so in the UK for sale used since they were issued, there may be more of course, but I can't find them.

 

As an ex Canon 'tog, I know of many more 1D MkIII's that are being disposed of, and these are newer than the M8!

 

So please, if you appreciate your M8 for what it is - an excellent tool, and not just a piece of jewellery, please post here, and let those others know that it's not all bad.

 

Please don't let's start another 'trash the M8' thread, with all the horror stories, just those which are M* friendly and positive.

 

Thanks,

 

Doug

 

Oh yes Doug, nobody should say anything bad about the M8. But did you go through all the pain of adjusting your complete system to make that thing work properly - adjust RF of camera, have 4 out of 7 lenses readjusted for proper focus, have of course coded all lenses and finally still waiting for the last IR filter to arrive after 7 months?

 

And all this for a price like the M8 plus all the money to spend in coding and recalibrating lenses, plus the cost of 5 IR filters (because you get 2 for free).

 

And I am doing RF photography since over 20 years now and have some pretty godd experience with the M system. So it is absolutely not the case that I am doing something wrong.

 

This was no fun for all the money it costs and I dare to make the statement - also if you do not like to hear - if I had known all this pain earlier I would have never ever started this adventure! And would simpls have bought some DSLR and a good zoom lens and achieve similar good output.

 

Sometimes it is not easy and nice to hear the truth and obviously some people do even not want to hear the truth.

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I expect a lot for for 5K. I got a lot, it's not perfect, some serious issues on getting the right file out of it for my clients, but I think that has to do with it's special needs in the RAW converter arena.

 

I love my M8 too, but I have to pay bills with it, so I will put out the problems I am having with it, not to bash it, but to get right to the point of nailing it down.

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- if I had known all this pain earlier I would have never ever started this adventure!

 

As a RF user for 20 years are you sure Peter?

 

As a small optical company Leica have done pretty well so far, they should only get better. I am pleased that the M8 has sold so well and helped bring this historic camera company back from the brink.

 

Jeff

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Oh yes Doug, nobody should say anything bad about the M8. But did you go through all the pain of adjusting your complete system to make that thing work properly - adjust RF of camera, have 4 out of 7 lenses readjusted for proper focus, have of course coded all lenses and finally still waiting for the last IR filter to arrive after 7 months?

 

And all this for a price like the M8 plus all the money to spend in coding and recalibrating lenses, plus the cost of 5 IR filters (because you get 2 for free).

 

And I am doing RF photography since over 20 years now and have some pretty godd experience with the M system. So it is absolutely not the case that I am doing something wrong.

 

This was no fun for all the money it costs and I dare to make the statement - also if you do not like to hear - if I had known all this pain earlier I would have never ever started this adventure! And would simpls have bought some DSLR and a good zoom lens and achieve similar good output.

 

Sometimes it is not easy and nice to hear the truth and obviously some people do even not want to hear the truth.

 

Peter - you are committing exactly the same 'sin' that you accuse Doug of - because you have had unfortunate experiences with your M8, nobody is allowed to say anything good about it - which is presumably why you have invaded this thread to spread your prejudice. If you want to sound off about your problems, there are any number of threads elsewhere on this Forum that you could post on - why do it here - on the one 'good news' thread -when Doug has specifically asked for postings from people who do not have issues with the camera? Must everyone share your pain?

 

I came to the M8 having previously used the Nikon-based Fuji S1 and S3 - so I do know how to recognise poor digital performance when I see it (the S1's auto-exposure performance was atrocious). The M8 is well ahead of the game as far as I'm concerned - even if I do need coding, IR filters and RAW capture to get the best out of it. Your Opinion May Vary - but there's no need to ram it down other people's throats.

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I had three consecutive "sudden death" failures over three months to start my M8 experience. Now I have a good one and have gone over 5000 frames without any problems. I love the camera and am very happy I bought it. I have no regrets whatsoever. The image quality, to me, is stellar and I am thrilled to be able to use a rangefinder system in the digital realm. The initial experience wasn't fun and the camera still isn't perfect. What digital camera is? On the other hand, it is an absolute joy to use and I am rarely without it. My Canons only come out when I need to shoot something with long lenses now.

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Oh yes Doug, nobody should say anything bad about the M8. But did you go through all the pain of adjusting your complete system to make that thing work properly - adjust RF of camera, have 4 out of 7 lenses readjusted for proper focus, have of course coded all lenses and finally still waiting for the last IR filter to arrive after 7 months?

 

Every rangefinder system I've had I've needed to adjust finders and lenses on occasion (Plaubel, Leica M4, M6, Linhof Technika). With the M8 I've had to get a couple of used lenses I bought adjusted for focus and coded. None of which I would call 'problems'. The coding allows electronic communication with existing lens (and it's optional) that's not a problem it's a feature. The IR filters have been a known requirement for a long time so those for whom it is unacceptable are forewarned. Leica's offer to provide 2 filters for free you can mark up to no good deed going unpunished.

 

Now those who have had cameras die on them or faulty electronics those are problems and they have a right to complain and complain loudly. Having to get your RF system set up and calibrated? A range finder viewing system is a real opto-mechanical Rube Goldberg device, my experience has been that they need occasional adjustment (the Mamiya 7's maybe more then occasional). I've found most new RF systems I've gotten have required calibration of one sort or another. I think with film M's many users are blissfully unaware of small variations from spec in some of there lenses or finder. All in all it's a great camera, not the right choice for most but I couldn't be happier with mine.

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Doug,

 

I don't check into the forum as much as I used to due to time constraints, but my experience is that the general mood on this fourm is very positive toward the M8, and interactions have been very helpful to those who have had problems, if anything else at least to vent. I bought mine on December 26th, second batch, no waiting, just went to a shop and found it. It is the best photographic tool I have ever used, and what I mean by that is that I get the best results I have ever gotten, consistently, when compared to any other Leica, Nikon, or Canon I have ever owned. Here's a very satisfying shot taken in Jerusalem this past Spring. This is the kind of shot that makes me a big fan of the camera. Copyright Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera.

 

Cheers,

Wilfredo

http://www.BenitezRivera.com

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Peter - you are committing exactly the same 'sin' that you accuse Doug of - because you have had unfortunate experiences with your M8, nobody is allowed to say anything good about it - which is presumably why you have invaded this thread to spread your prejudice. If you want to sound off about your problems, there are any number of threads elsewhere on this Forum that you could post on - why do it here - on the one 'good news' thread -when Doug has specifically asked for postings from people who do not have issues with the camera? Must everyone share your pain?

 

I came to the M8 having previously used the Nikon-based Fuji S1 and S3 - so I do know how to recognise poor digital performance when I see it (the S1's auto-exposure performance was atrocious). The M8 is well ahead of the game as far as I'm concerned - even if I do need coding, IR filters and RAW capture to get the best out of it. Your Opinion May Vary - but there's no need to ram it down other people's throats.

 

John, come on, I will NOT stay away from posting what I think in whatever thread is on here. BTW - I was holding to the rule to be specific in a thread when I joined, but unfortunately the whole culture her in this forum is about to destroy any rules. Thus I do not feel any longer to have to hold these rules up myself.

 

Sorry, but better talk to those who always abuse threads for some other debate.

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...unfortunately the whole culture her in this forum is about to destroy any rules...

 

Hmm, well at the risk of commiting the offence to which you refer, I have to say that compared to the other internet forums I've visited this is one of the most flame resistant.

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