M calibration

[vikag]

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I did some testing this morning with 2 lenses - Noctilux F1.0 50mm and Summilux 35 FLE on my M10. When I had just the Summilux I didn’t realize this but now recently with the Noctilux it’s very apparent. The rangefinder patches when aligned do not produce in focus picture. When I refocus using live view I notice that the rangefinder patches are ever so slightly misaligned for the picture to be in focus. This is the case for both lenses and the focus patch misalignment is in the same direction (clockwise) for both lenses. 

 

I had my M10 fully serviced at Wetzlar just last year. Do you think it’s gone out of alignment? 

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[a.noctilux]

How much is the "out of alignment" ?

I ask as maybe the discrepency is manageable in use.

 

With my Noctilux 1.0, taking into account the curvature of field of the lens and so much possible human error (myself ! ),

I take the two lines of dof "f/1" as rough guide when focus at near infinity.

If the patch is inside the dof, near infinity, that is enough for me, I just use happily the lens.

Like here, a bit past infinity but within the f/1 dof, I change often using different M sincelong,

no need to tailor the lens for one M body.

 

The one at left is even much harder to use 😇

 

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Edited November 15, 2021 by a.noctilux

[TomB_tx]

Both the camera RF and lens are independently calibrated to separate "standards" - and each adjustment specification has some tolerance. As a result the camera RF may be towards one limit of the acceptable tolerance, and the lens at a different point in its tolerance. You may just have such a tolerance mis-match, where each is considered "factory spec."

Also, any mechanical device like the body RF has some amount of hysteresis & deadband, so the indicated focus in moving the adjustment in one direction may be different than when moving in the other direction. You should compare focus moving from both directions to see if that makes a difference.

Calibrations are also affected by the care taken by the individual calibrating, so having the body checked again may produce a better result. Leica created new calibration methods for digital to reduce the adjustment tolerance, but there will always be a tolerance on such adjustments. Some suggest sending both the lens and body, requesting that they be cross-checked to match the tolerances

[vikag]

13 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

How much is the "out of alignment" ?

I ask as maybe the discrepency is manageable in use.

 

With my Noctilux 1.0, taking into account the curvature of field of the lens and so much possible human error (myself ! ),

I take the two lines of dof "f/1" as rough guide when focus at near infinity.

If the patch is inside the dof, near infinity, that is enough for me, I just use happily the lens.

Like here, a bit past infinity but within the f/1 dof, I change often using different M sincelong,

no need to tailor the lens for one M body.

 

The one at left is even much harder to use 😇

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

So I tried both my lenses wide open at F1 for the Noctilux and F1.4 for the summilux. I tried people first.
In case of Noctilux if the rangefinder patches align for the eye the ear or hair in the background is in focus. The eye and rest of face is blurry.
Then I tried taking a picture of some text too. I noticed that the text is clearer when the rangefinder focus patches are slightly misaligned. But if aligned then the the text is not even readable. 

in the case of 35mm summilux I guess the lens is more forgiving but because of my Noctilux I realized that my m10 even with the summilux when refocused with live gives a better output than just relying on the rangefinder focusing. 

I guess I could train my eye to always misalign the rangefinder focus windows (I should see two lines) a bit but with Noctilux it’s hard! 

 

 

[a.noctilux]

If you are absolutely certain that it's the M10 which is out of calibration, just try to calibrate it yourself or by  trusted technician.

The lenses can be out of cal. also.

 

Side note ...

In the past, changing often Leica M as I wrote, I DO have one lens which I declare as reference lens (only for my use).

So if I have some doubt in M RF calibration, if out of cal. trying with this lens, I can adjust with this reference lens.

Not easy but doable with regular tools.

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, vikag said:

I did some testing this morning with 2 lenses - Noctilux F1.0 50mm and Summilux 35 FLE on my M10. When I had just the Summilux I didn’t realize this but now recently with the Noctilux it’s very apparent. The rangefinder patches when aligned do not produce in focus picture. When I refocus using live view I notice that the rangefinder patches are ever so slightly misaligned for the picture to be in focus. This is the case for both lenses and the focus patch misalignment is in the same direction (clockwise) for both lenses. 

 

I had my M10 fully serviced at Wetzlar just last year. Do you think it’s gone out of alignment? 

Or the lenses. it is always wise to send both camera and lenses in together for calibration.

[sarav]

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Try focussing toward infinity (500meters is enough), lenses should stop at infinity mark and patches in RF should be aligned on the subject.

If lenses stop at infinity mark and patches are misaligned you probably have to recalibrate infinity in RF; it is quite simple with a 2,5mm Allen wrench and a little bit patience.

I've got many M-Bodies and 2 only had RF spot on. So I had to learn how to align RF.

[a.noctilux]

45 minutes ago, sarav said:

Try focussing toward infinity (500meters is enough), lenses should stop at infinity mark and patches in RF should be aligned on the subject.

If lenses stop at infinity mark and patches are misaligned you probably have to recalibrate infinity in RF; it is quite simple with a 2,5mm Allen wrench and a little bit patience.

I've got many M-Bodies and 2 only had RF spot on. So I had to learn how to align RF.

Done that since M8 + flat twin travel & vibrations ...far from any technical services.

Patience yes, a very tiny small bit each time to turn the hex key, something like 1 or 2°.

I'd use Hex/Allen 2.0mm in place of 2.5mm 😉.

[vikag]

8 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Done that since M8 + flat twin travel & vibrations ...far from any technical services.

Patience yes, a very tiny small bit each time to turn the hex key, something like 1 or 2°.

I'd use Hex/Allen 2.0mm in place of 2.5mm 😉.

Yes I actually just tried the hex Allen 2.0 and I think I’ve fixed the focusing issue!! I ran out of battery also because I couldn’t believe the focus was bang on each time. Infact I was tempted to do one more degree turn with the Allen key. But I will try again tomorrow after reviewing the pictures. Thanks for that tip! It is brilliant!

[28framelines]

I have an MP (film) that I got brand new this year, and think the rangefinder is off.

how does one go about adjusting the rangefinder mechanism?

The photos shared below are me seeing whether or not, at 1 meter, the rangefinder is calibrated correctly. The first 3 show that at one meter, it’s off (I believe it’s back focusing?) and then the last two are me shifting the camera forward by a number of inches to get the rangefinder patch to align.

I started investigating this because at Infinity, the two images never fully align (the patch never reaches “full” infinity), for example when looking 500m and further away (example, the moon or a mountain range).

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Edited November 18, 2021 by 28framelines

[John Ricard]

57 minutes ago, 28framelines said:

how does one go about adjusting the rangefinder mechanism?

Unfortunately, you aren't going to get much help here with that question.  At best you'll someone will post yet again, the hand drawn(!) diagram that purports to explain how to adjust the rangefinder.  You'll also get some people writing brief how to's with language like "turn the hex key very little counterclockwise".  These efforts are appreciated I suppose, but essentially useless for many of us who understand that the best way to learn how to do something is through a video clip.  And since none of the people here who claim to be able to adjust the rangefinder are willing to create such a video, your only real option is to send it off for repair if you suspect the rangefinder is off.  If I ever learn how to adjust it myself you can rest assured that I will be the first one to make a video explaining the process.

[vikag]

1 hour ago, 28framelines said:

I have an MP (film) that I got brand new this year, and think the rangefinder is off.

how does one go about adjusting the rangefinder mechanism?

The photos shared below are me seeing whether or not, at 1 meter, the rangefinder is calibrated correctly. The first 3 show that at one meter, it’s off (I believe it’s back focusing?) and then the last two are me shifting the camera forward by a number of inches to get the rangefinder patch to align.

I started investigating this because at Infinity, the two images never fully align (the patch never reaches “full” infinity), for example when looking 500m and further away (example, the moon or a mountain range).

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

You can try this video link:

 

[28framelines]

Based off what y'all are seeing, does this look off to anyone else? Like, I'm not crazy, right?

[sarav]

I bought 3 film MP brand new and all were off with RF. I had to align with hex key. As you see in the video it's not hard or dangerous....and not! You're not crazy.

[28framelines]

31 minutes ago, sarav said:

I bought 3 film MP brand new and all were off with RF. I had to align with hex key. As you see in the video it's not hard or dangerous....and not! You're not crazy.

When he warns at the end that the thing moves, is that because it could bend/torque somehow, or is it because it's just harder to get fine turning of alan key movement when the arm is moving back and forth?

[sarav]

the latter.

First time you do it you're very scared but when you immediately learn the force to be applied it's a piece of cake.

Edited November 19, 2021 by sarav

[sarav]

I choose a far subject to align infinity. From my window I can see a bell tower 500 meters away from me. On the top of it there's a cross and I do align the infinity to that. When lenses stop mechanically to infinity mark and patches in viewfinder are perfectly aligned the work is done.

[Robert Blanko]

Now I also realized that I have to adjust the rangefinder of my M10R. The patch did not fully match in the infinity position. I spotted this with my new APO 50 Summicron and already suspected this would be the black sheep of my lens family. But when taking a look to my other Leica lenses, the mismatch was consistent with all lenses, including Zeiss Sonnar 50 and some Voigtländer lenses.

Thus, it seems that I have to buy a good quality 2mm Allen key...

As I usually do not use the rangefinder patch when focusing to infinity but merely care about the mechanical stop of the lens, I only realized the misalignment by the slightly degraded performance for intermediate ranges and only almost accidentally stumbled across the misalignment in the viewfinder image.

As a standard routine, I will now always check whether the rangefinder patch is accurate in the inifinity position before leaving home with my Leica!

I also found the following interesting video, however in German language: 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Robert Blanko

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[Robert Blanko]

Today the 2mm Allen key arrived and I adjusted the rangefinder. Did not take 10 minutes. Now the rangefinder and the visoflex-experience match again, as far as I can judge from a quick photo walk during my lunch break.