M4-P owners help! Camera Lug failure today 😪

[jayboy76]

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Need some advice from fellow M4, M4-2 and M4-P owners. 

I was out shooting with my newly acquired M4P( less than 4 days old!) when I suddenly felt my camera swing out towards the floor! I was lucky to grab it by the end of the strap that was still attached. 

Realised that one side of the camera lug fell out! Totally surprised and I have never in my years of owning cameras have a camera lug fail on me. Gosh!

Is this lug failure common on M4Ps? Can anyone who has repaired such an Issue let me know if it’s going to cost a lot to fix and if it’s a simple or difficult fix? 

Looks like I will be shooting with the M4P hand held for abit . 😪 Thanks mates! 

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[Mute-on]

Firstly, cover the resulting hole with tape, since it can be a source of light leaks that will affect your exposures.

Replacement lugs are available but will require disassembly to a bare chassis to fit. Not a DIY job. Find a known to be good Leica repairer accessible to you and send the camera to them. Get a CLA at the same time, since half of the effort to facilitate this will be done to replace the lug. In fact, both lugs should replaced at  once since the other is quite possibly about to let go too (or not, impossible to know).

Good luck!

[jayboy76]

4 hours ago, Mute-on said:

Firstly, cover the resulting hole with tape, since it can be a source of light leaks that will affect your exposures.

Replacement lugs are available but will require disassembly to a bare chassis to fit. Not a DIY job. Find a known to be good Leica repairer accessible to you and send the camera to them. Get a CLA at the same time, since half of the effort to facilitate this will be done to replace the lug. In fact, both lugs should replaced at  once since the other is quite possibly about to let go too (or not, impossible to know).

Good luck!

Thanks there! Great tip on the black tape over the exposed lug area. I didn’t realise that it could leak light in. Gosh I have shot 3 rolls thus far post lug breaking off! 
 

great thing is the local dealer I bought it from gives a 3 months warranty so hope they can sort it out under the shop warranty. 

[a.noctilux]

Sorry to hear that.

This happended to my ex-M4 more than once, the turning eyelet can occure before detaching.

The replacements were done when CLAed or repaired, indeed this needed more work than minor repair.

 

As side note, these on old M are weak parts.

On newer ( always in production ) MP/M-A, these eyelets are fixed with two screws on each.

Thinking that I said M-A is new M4-P, now I revise my word.

I see in use many better (not much) features in newer M-A/MP.

[Herr Barnack]

Quote

... great thing is the local dealer I bought it from gives a 3 months warranty so hope they can sort it out under the shop warranty. 

I would suggest taking it back to the dealer and let them send it off for repair.  Since it is under warranty, correctly repairing it is their responsibility. 

I would ask the dealer who does their warranty service.  I would be very skittish about having it done in house by their "expert" unless that person is actually a Leica trained repair technician.  If they are not, I would respectfully insist that the repair be done by either Leica or a repair technician with an established reputation such as Don Goldberg, Sherry Krauter or http://www.yyecamera.com/

You could also get a CLA at the same time - ask the technician how much a CLA would cost over and above the cost of the lug repair and pay that portion yourself.  At the end of the day, it is incumbent upon the dealer to repair the camera to your satisfaction, not however/by whoever they can get it repaired at the lowest cost to them. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Pyrogallol]

Not the sort of failure that a dealer could have seen coming. Sometimes they will start to turn a little but if it sheared off that could not be forseen. The dealer ought to get it fixed for you. 

[bags27]

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If you are located in the US, the 3 most famous Leica repair folks are, as Herr Bernack above says of the 1st two: Goldberg (DAC Madison, WI), Krautner in NY, and Youxin Ye in Sharon MA: wye7@yahoo.com

Shipping/insurance will cost enough that you should definitely get a CLA at the same time. Often it's best to include at least your favorite lens as well to have it adjusted and calibrated. Figure $200-300.

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by bags27

[jayboy76]

50 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

I would suggest taking it back to the dealer and let them send it off for repair.  Since it is under warranty, correctly repairing it is their responsibility. 

I would ask the dealer who does their warranty service.  I would be very skittish about having it done in house by their "expert" unless that person is actually a Leica trained repair technician.  If they are not, I would respectfully insist that the repair be done by either Leica or a repair technician with an established reputation such as Don Goldberg, Sherry Krauter or http://www.yyecamera.com/

You could also get a CLA at the same time - ask the technician how much a CLA would cost over and above the cost of the lug repair and pay that portion yourself.  At the end of the day, it is incumbent upon the dealer to repair the camera to your satisfaction, not however/by whoever they can get it repaired at the lowest cost to them. 

Very kind of you and great advise thank you. At least everything else about the camera seems to be functioning well including pictures turning out lovely! 

[jayboy76]

27 minutes ago, bags27 said:

If you are located in the US, the 3 most famous Leica repair folks are, as Herr Bernack above says of the 1st two: Goldberg (DAC Madison, WI), Krautner in NY, and Youxin Ye in Sharon MA: wye7@yahoo.com

Shipping/insurance will cost enough that you should definitely get a CLA at the same time. Often it's best to include at least your favorite lens as well to have it adjusted and calibrated. Figure $200-300.

 

Unfortunately I am located way over in Asia in Singapore. Going to have to chat with my dealer real soon. Thanks though! 

[plaidshirts]

8 hours ago, jayboy76 said:

Unfortunately I am located way over in Asia in Singapore. Going to have to chat with my dealer real soon. Thanks though! 

I’ve never seen such a clean break before. There should be tech in your area. If not Hong Kong for sure. They’ll replace them with stainless steel lugs.

[Chuck Albertson]

Nice catch!

[adan]

Never had this with an M.

But several times the lugs started to come loose with my late-model Contaxes (G1/2, RX SLR). It was a notorious bug.

[250swb]

Maybe the previous owner used a wrist strap that weakened it, but either way send it back to the dealer, ask for your money back or a proper repair. It is unfortunate that the job itself is simple but getting at it is a convoluted process.

[jayboy76]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

Maybe the previous owner used a wrist strap that weakened it, but either way send it back to the dealer, ask for your money back or a proper repair. It is unfortunate that the job itself is simple but getting at it is a convoluted process.

Well I tell myself I can have worse issues after scouring this forum like shutter issues, light leaks, jammed or irregular shutter speeds. 
though seems like the chassis needs to be stripped to fix this apparently simple repair, will probably get the dealer to see if it’s possible to do a CLA . Hope wait times do go into months for this! Will update! 

[jayboy76]

9 hours ago, plaidshirts said:

I’ve never seen such a clean break before. There should be tech in your area. If not Hong Kong for sure. They’ll replace them with stainless steel lugs.

Yes we have quite a very good Leica M following here in Singapore with a couple good technicians here and Hong Kong. 
 

the dealer is a very well known dealer locally (frankly there isn’t many anyway) so I do trust he will do it well. I buy all my Leica bodies and lens from him anyway and this is the first time I needed help (not sure if it’s because I’m dealing with old film Ms this round.) 

 

im just afraid I will end up grabbing an M5 to tide me over when I send the m4p in! Saw 2 well kept M5s for around USD1.5k. 

[a.noctilux]

Strange that the "lug" (which in my M4-P are steel and fixed well) came out easily, like this.

I still have two M4-P, steel lugs checked, not any worn, they are very strong comparing to M4 for example.

 

In my decades M using, I never had the lugs loosing falling on my M4-2 or M4-P.

 

Good idea to have kind of backup, M5 is great, you'll never have lug problem 😉.

[colint544]

On 11/7/2021 at 3:11 PM, Pyrogallol said:

Not the sort of failure that a dealer could have seen coming. Sometimes they will start to turn a little but if it sheared off that could not be forseen. The dealer ought to get it fixed for you. 

Not to totally hijack the thread, but one of the lugs on my M2 turns slightly back and forth. Bit wary, guess it's probably not to be trusted now?

[Frase]

I thought the lugs were more like a rivet right through the shell of the camera thats why they sometimes leak light, did you fill the hole ? almost looks like there is some glue in the hole ? Can we see the lug.

Cheers

Edited November 9, 2021 by Frase

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[a.noctilux]

12 hours ago, Frase said:

I thought the lugs were more like a rivet right through the shell of the camera thats why they sometimes leak light, did you fill the hole ? almost looks like there is some glue in the hole ? Can we see the lug.

Cheers

My post #4 ...

Riveted (I think in brass)...

These are weak parts in pre-MP * Leica M revised with two fixing screws.**

 

*  even in M6, my older M6 has rivets,

** later ones as my x 0.85 M6HM has two screw fixing eyelets

this one

Edited November 10, 2021 by a.noctilux

[Vlad Soare]

Wow! I would have never imagined that those eyelets can break like that.
This is really scary! 😲
 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Vlad Soare