Simone_DF Posted December 19, 2022 Share #541 Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Herr Barnack said: Regarding prices, some people complain that the Leica M system is overpriced - yet the market still does not have a rangefinder with the same (or even close) specs as the M11 that is priced at $4500 USD, or a lens that equals the 35mm Summicron ASPH and is priced at $1900 USD. The Pixii offers neither. Likewise for the Fuji X100V. It would appear that equaling Leica M at half the price is not as easily accomplished as some seem to think... The Pixii offers quite a few neat things, in fact I'd consider the Pixii over the M11. I really like the idea of the upgradeable body. You pay 2600 now for the Pixii vs 8900 for the M11, that's 1/3 of the M11 price, and you can upgrade the sensor and the processor for less than what Leica charges for a sensor cleaning, which means you camera will get better over time, with the potential of retaining a high resale value since it won't really become obsolete. Besides, weren't people crying all over for the death of the M-D line? You can now replace the M-D with the Pixii. For the lens, I disagree. The Zeiss Distagon is vastly superior, to my eyes, in everything except size. And given their recent history, I bet the new Voigtlander 1.5 will be another winner, but let's wait for the reviews first. Edited December 19, 2022 by Simone_DF 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 19, 2022 Posted December 19, 2022 Hi Simone_DF, Take a look here Pixii - complementary or competition? [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Adam Bonn Posted December 19, 2022 Share #542 Posted December 19, 2022 31 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said: Regarding prices, some people complain that the Leica M system is overpriced - yet the market still does not have a rangefinder with the same (or even close) specs as the M11 that is priced at $4500 USD, or a lens that equals the 35mm Summicron ASPH and is priced at $1900 USD. I probably shouldn't quote you as sincerely I've no real care about perception of value one way or the other... however the market has many non-RF cameras that have M11 specs or better for less than M11 money and I suspect that the Zeiss 35/1.4 and CV 35/2 APO would out perform the cron 35 ASPH in a spec comparison. (the 1.4 does it straight away by being 1.4!!) Of course you/I/we chose Leica over Sony etc and (perhaps) Leica over Zeiss/CV for the mystique, cachet, perception of build quality and the cult of rangefinding - but by the cold hard reason of comparative specs the M is neither the top dog nor the VFM choice. It's a niche product and Pixii seems to wish to add another option into that particular market place. No harm in that IMHO Obviously at this stage Pixii isn't so much in Leica's rear view mirror as it is scarcely joined the freeway that Leica drives along... but I do wonder if Pixii might at some point release a FF rangefinder... I appreciate that wouldn't suddenly make it Leica beater but it would add a far more viable (than APSC) alternative in the very tiny marketplace of 'FF digital rangefinder' If by some miracle this fictitious Pixii also had IBIS and/or a built in EVF, then suddenly it would be offering things that some M shooters seem to want, yet not be a Leica and no doubt for less money. Time will tell. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted December 19, 2022 Share #543 Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Herr Barnack said: Regarding prices, some people complain that the Leica M system is overpriced - yet the market still does not have a rangefinder with the same (or even close) specs as the M11 that is priced at $4500 USD, or a lens that equals the 35mm Summicron ASPH and is priced at $1900 USD. The Pixii offers neither. Likewise for the Fuji X100V. It would appear that equaling Leica M at half the price is not as easily accomplished as some seem to think... Rangefinder being the key word. 😉 Some of us are not really interested in DSLRs, regardless of specs... Edited December 19, 2022 by Herr Barnack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
analog-digital Posted December 19, 2022 Share #544 Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) vor 4 Stunden schrieb Kwesi: All these wanna be "Leica killers" need to come to the battle with a full frame 35mm sensor or stay home. Well, if you argue like that, Leica should stay home, too. Why? Outdated, no longer up to date and far too expensive. A real hype concept. There are better, much better cameras. Satisfied? Edited December 19, 2022 by analog-digital Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 19, 2022 Share #545 Posted December 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Simone_DF said: ...weren't people crying all over for the death of the M-D line? You can now replace the M-D with the Pixii... Being one of those strange M-D lovers, myself, I can remember saying numerous positive things about the v2 Pixii yet at the same time there were some seriously awkward limitations about its essentials which would have been absolute deal-breakers from my point of view. Unfortunately I can't remember what they were and I'm not about to go through 540+ pages of posts to find out... Philip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 19, 2022 Share #546 Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) All the bs and hype about yadayada-killers is just so much hot air and marketing folderal. Soon as I see someone mouthing that stuff, I ignore them completely. There's no way that the good folks at Pixii SAS are thinking of themselves as "Leica killers". After all, the Pixii camera is designed to use Leica M-mount lenses ... why denigrate or wish the extinction of the best lenses to use on the camera you are introducing? I believe their notion is to build a fine digital camera, utilizing Leica M-mount lenses, with a different feature set and at a lower price than what Leica builds. That's all. That the Pixii camera, APS format and all, may prove a better option for some people than a Leica has little to do with the BS of it being a "Leica killer". Just like a Toyota Corolla is often a better choice of car for a given person than a Mercedes C300 ... and Toyota has no spin about the Corolla being a "Mercedes killer". The whole concept is laughable nonsense. And then there's the other marketing/reviewer hype-spin term "deal breaker" ... ugh. G Edited December 19, 2022 by ramarren 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
analog-digital Posted December 19, 2022 Share #547 Posted December 19, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) vor 14 Minuten schrieb ramarren: All the bs and hype about yadayada-killers is just so much hot air and marketing folderal. Soon as I see someone mouthing that stuff, I ignore them completely. There's no way that the good folks at Pixii SAS are thinking of themselves as "Leica killers". After all, the Pixii camera is designed to use Leica M-mount lenses ... why denigrate or wish the extinction of the best lenses to use on the camera you are introducing? I believe their notion is to build a fine digital camera, utilizing Leica M-mount lenses, with a different feature set and at a lower price than what Leica builds. That's all. That the Pixii camera, APS format and all, may prove a better option for some people than a Leica has little to do with the BS of it being a "Leica killer". Just like a Toyota Corolla is often a better choice of car for a given person than a Mercedes C300 ... and Toyota has no spin about the Corolla being a "Mercedes killer". The whole concept is laughable nonsense. And then there's the other marketing/reviewer hype-spin term "deal breaker" ... ugh. G Do you think the same of Leica compared to other camera (systems)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted December 19, 2022 Share #548 Posted December 19, 2022 28 minutes ago, ramarren said: That the Pixii camera, APS format and all, may prove a better option for some people than a Leica has little to do with the BS of it being a "Leica killer". Just like a Toyota Corolla is often a better choice of car for a given person than a Mercedes C300 ... and Toyota has no spin about the Corolla being a "Mercedes killer". The whole concept is laughable nonsense. I couldn't agree more. I believe the term for that marketing folderal is "click bait" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 19, 2022 Share #549 Posted December 19, 2022 It is yet of little use to compare different formats but as to saying that a crop camera could kill a FF one, are we getting serious really? Only crop RFs the Pixii can be compared to are R-D1 and M8 cameras. When we (at least i) were using them we were happy to find M lenses to work with them so i would not expect any difference on the Pixii. Or rather the latter should work better with M lenses given that it has a modern sensor. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 20, 2022 Share #550 Posted December 20, 2022 9 hours ago, analog-digital said: Do you think the same of Leica compared to other camera (systems)? I'm not sure what you mean. Clarify? G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cboy Posted December 21, 2022 Share #551 Posted December 21, 2022 Anyone has considered the potential of PIXII's non monochrome camera creating monochrome dngs? It may mean other companies can potentially make mono raw files for their cameras without the need for a dedicated mono sensor. What potentially future differences between (perhaps negligible) a FF mono sensor raw vs FF bayer sensor converted mono raw? Quite interesting imo., Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
analog-digital Posted December 21, 2022 Share #552 Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) I wonder from all the comments here whether anyone has already held this camera in their hands and photographed with it. Or whether you basically shoot against everything that is not Leica. It seems that way, unfortunately. Edited December 21, 2022 by analog-digital 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 21, 2022 Share #553 Posted December 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, analog-digital said: I wonder from all the comments here whether anyone has already held this camera in their hands and photographed with it. Or whether you basically shoot against everything that is not Leica. It seems that way, unfortunately. Not at all. I shoot on various systems and they all have their place. Much as I wish Pixii well, I do not use APS cameras so for me the current offering has no interest other than it might prove to be a steppng stone to a FF camera which may well be of interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegelli Posted December 21, 2022 Share #554 Posted December 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, cboy said: Anyone has considered the potential of PIXII's non monochrome camera creating monochrome dngs? It may mean other companies can potentially make mono raw files for their cameras without the need for a dedicated mono sensor. What potentially future differences between (perhaps negligible) a FF mono sensor raw vs FF bayer sensor converted mono raw? Quite interesting imo., I'm not sure how monochrom dng's from this camera would be better than converting the colour image to monochrom after the fact. One of the advantages of a true monochrom sensor is the absence of the red/blue/green Bayer filters in front of the photosites and therefore the photosites receive more light and the sensor gets a higher base sensitivity and less noise when used in lower light. The PIXII will still have the light loss of the colour filters. Depending on how the software for creating the monochrom dng's work you still might see a step in resolution allthough I'm not sure if that would work very well without interpolating the signal you get from the three different colours the adjacent photosites pick up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 21, 2022 Share #555 Posted December 21, 2022 I had my Pixii for a few weeks and tested it extensively with all my M-mount lenses ... all modes, all features. What I found was that, despite being quite a nice camera in many ways, it had a few specific flaws (some ergonomic, some control oriented, some hardware based) that made it difficult for my uses. So I returned it, as the purchase agreement allowed. I did test the Pixii in monochrome DNG mode quite a bit. It revitalized my interest in a monochrome camera, which I'd put on the back shelf since 2015, and made some wonderful photographs for me. When I returned it, the the Pixii's monochrome performance inspired me to acquire the Leica M10 Monochrom ... which I have found to be simply an excellent camera that inspires my use more and more. It was a large leap past the Pixii financially but one that has so far proven to be the right decision, for me. I wrote up my issues with the Pixii at length and sent them to the folks at Pixii SAS. Hopefully, my work with the Pixii camera and write up of how it didn't meet my needs will inspire them to continue development on some of the issues I found. I would be delighted to at some point acquire an updated Pixii with the majority of the issues I articulated fixed as I think it's quite a fine camera over all. G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loloboubou1 Posted December 21, 2022 Share #556 Posted December 21, 2022 Il y a 20 minutes, analog-digital a dit : Je me demande d'après tous les commentaires ici si quelqu'un a déjà tenu cet appareil photo dans ses mains et l'a photographié avec. Ou si vous tirez essentiellement contre tout ce qui n'est pas Leica. Il semble que ce soit le cas, malheureusement. Me!!! And a lot of others. We find ourselves (more frequently) on the FaceBook page: Pixii Camera Users Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
analog-digital Posted December 21, 2022 Share #557 Posted December 21, 2022 vor 7 Minuten schrieb ramarren: I had my Pixii for a few weeks and tested it extensively with all my M-mount lenses ... all modes, all features. What I found was that, despite being quite a nice camera in many ways, it had a few specific flaws (some ergonomic, some control oriented, some hardware based) that made it difficult for my uses. So I returned it, as the purchase agreement allowed. I did test the Pixii in monochrome DNG mode quite a bit. It revitalized my interest in a monochrome camera, which I'd put on the back shelf since 2015, and made some wonderful photographs for me. When I returned it, the the Pixii's monochrome performance inspired me to acquire the Leica M10 Monochrom ... which I have found to be simply an excellent camera that inspires my use more and more. It was a large leap past the Pixii financially but one that has so far proven to be the right decision, for me. I wrote up my issues with the Pixii at length and sent them to the folks at Pixii SAS. Hopefully, my work with the Pixii camera and write up of how it didn't meet my needs will inspire them to continue development on some of the issues I found. I would be delighted to at some point acquire an updated Pixii with the majority of the issues I articulated fixed as I think it's quite a fine camera over all. G Which Pixii, before 2023 or the 2023 version? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loloboubou1 Posted December 21, 2022 Share #558 Posted December 21, 2022 I have the 2022 version and I have been testing the 64-bit version (2023) for a month and a half so we can say that I have both! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 21, 2022 Share #559 Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, analog-digital said: Which Pixii, before 2023 or the 2023 version? Obviously it can't be the 2023 version since it isn't 2023 yet, and the 2023 version is only just announced within the past month or so anyway. I received the Pixii camera in the first week of April 2022, worked with it extensively for about 3.5 weeks (including upgrading to the most current firmware after I received it), and shipped it back at the end of April 2022. G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted December 21, 2022 Share #560 Posted December 21, 2022 Somewhere I read that some lenses with larger hoods block the rangefinder window. Is this true? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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