S007 w/Hasseblad lens and other options... in 2021 ?

[proenca]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi there and thank you for reading my post.

I'm a Leica user from the dawn of ages ( read : there was only M film cameras ) and I enjoy having two systems : a M system ( got a M9 with a 35mm 1.4 lux and 75mm which I love ) and a different body.

Tried them all : Nikon Dxx and Canon 1Dsxxx and got rid of them, Sony A7rII and it was terrible, GFX50s, found it too big and clumsy and the quality ( perceived quality of the camera ) is too plasticky, Hasseblad X1D was sooooooooooo slow and clunky ( reminds me of my M8, bit infuriating to use ) , Leica S2 ( original ) with a 70mm which was... superb - bit big but gorgeous and now for quite a while, a Sony A7rIII with GM fast glass ( 24mm 1.4, 135 1.8, etc ).

I 've been using the A7RIII for my kids ( 6 and 4 ) and travel , together with my M but I usually prefer my M, even its a 9. 

I've been offered a S007 part exchange for my A7rIII and two GM lenses and with a bit of extra cash I can buy a 80mm Hasselbad and the S->H adapter and a 28mm HCD lens.

The plan is to buy the 70mm in the future, just cant swing it right now.

First question :

- sample of the S007 with Hassy lens ? worth it ?

Second question :

- I love MF and the MF look, am I mad ? or should just go with the SL2 and call it a day ?

As for what I do, I do landscape photography and travel and family photos. Nothing professional ( anymore at least ) and love to do some car photos as well.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[ropo54]

As a talentless hobbyist, I, too, am smitten with medium format and the S007's dynamic range.  If I'm going to continue with my hobby I am glad to have the S 007 and its lenses.

I can't speak to the Hasselblad 80mm, but, I'd suspect you'll have very satisfying results with it.  I have the S 70, and think it is a terrific choice, and particularly in light of it being the smallest and lightest of the S lenses.  

Having had the X1D II . . . I very much enjoyed it with the 45 P because of its comparative smaller size/weight, but in the end it was too slow for taking photos of my grandkids as compared to the S007. The images were terrific, though the character was different than the S lenses' images. The images from the S007 lenses are sublime.  The downside: I cannot say that I really enjoy their size and weight.

As for the the SL line . . . it will certainly have advantages in speed, weight, and less expensive lens options. It is probably the most practical alternative, but I suspect from your post that itch will not be scratched without trying the S 007 first.  (There are some really well priced pre-owned S 007 prices now too).

And, since I'm rambling, I do wonder about the future of the S system lenses. I'd guess that Leica will go mirrorless in the next adaptation of MF, but what is the future for the lenses?  Will there be a market?  It seems that today the market is quite soft. (I'd thought that with the advent of the S 3 there might have been more demand). 

Good luck with your soul-searching. :}

Regards, Rob

 

 

 

[artontop]

Hi there. I have Leica S 006 with Hass adapter, plus HC 80mm , HC 28mm, HC 100mm, HC 300mm, see my shots here:

https://www.dominikbargiel.com/Series/Burano/ (Leica S + HC 80mm + HC 28mm)
https://www.dominikbargiel.com/Series/Venice-Film-noir/ (same as above)
https://www.dominikbargiel.com/Series/Venice/ (Leica S + HC 80mm + HC 28mm + HC 300mm)
https://www.dominikbargiel.com/Series/LondonDiagonal/ (same as above)
https://www.dominikbargiel.com/Series/Andalusia/ (Leica S + HC 28mm + HC 80mm + just few HC 300mm)
https://www.dominikbargiel.com/Series/Forest-of-Dean/ (Leica S + HC80 + HC100)

Leica S,S2 + Hass lenses works perfectly, focus great, Hass lenses are cheap and looong running. 
HC 80mm, HC 100mm, HC 300mm are amazing in every way, you will not be dissapointed. 28mm is great but I will prefer 24mm 😜

D.

Edited July 13, 2021 by artontop
correction

[darylgo]

12 hours ago, artontop said:

HC 80mm, HC 100mm, HC 300mm are amazing in every way, you will not be dissapointed. 28mm is great but I will prefer 24mm 😜

D.

I am thinking of getting the adapter and 300mm lens, do you have any recommendations or caveats for someone not familiar with the H system and lenses?

On 7/12/2021 at 5:48 AM, proenca said:

 

Second question :

- I love MF and the MF look, am I mad ? or should just go with the SL2 and call it a day ?

 

My S006 has corrosion issues, a 007 replaced it.   I don't see much difference in the S body models, they're all good.  There's a few negatives to the S system, I continue to enjoy shooting it immensely, my SL sits unused.  The SL2 is all about state of the art digital imaging that I find too digital, the S has a smoothness that I appreciate, more film-like than digital.   A Sony move to Leica would, on the surface be a great trade but only you would know if it suits you, my S system gets too little use because of size and weight, it's easier to carry an M just as it would be with the Sony A7xxx or an SL2.  

[setuporg]

On 7/12/2021 at 9:07 AM, ropo54 said:

And, since I'm rambling, I do wonder about the future of the S system lenses. I'd guess that Leica will go mirrorless in the next adaptation of MF, but what is the future for the lenses?  Will there be a market?  It seems that today the market is quite soft. (I'd thought that with the advent of the S 3 there might have been more demand). 

I'm converging to the idea that the S line will be the Hasselblad V system, which will live frozen in time and be legendary.  There's not much hope to see a vibrant market in it but there'll always be some niche for those who understand.  The 907x move was a fantastic feat of rejuvenation for all those CF lenses, perhaps something like that awaits the S...

[darylgo]

@setuporg frozen in time is well said.  I have to wonder if Leica is reluctant to discontinue the system and suffer the backlash of the R system.  Instead, they pushed out a camera with little change and will delay any decisions on the future.  With digital's rapid progress I am happy to shoot my S and lenses but how much longer will it be relevant is hard to know.  The S to L adapter future-proofs the lenses  and it is tempting to buy every one to fill in the gaps at the bargain prices available.  

[setuporg]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

50 minutes ago, darylgo said:

it is tempting to buy every one to fill in the gaps at the bargain prices available.  

I've done exactly that and assembled the complete 10 lens lineup.  In terms of "keeping up", if you like the S look -- which most of us here do -- it's hard to see how any future technology will obviate the S of today.  As long as it works, it will produce the great S look.  SD cards are around...  so is electricity.

[darylgo]

I have been on the fence about acquiring any further S lenses until further evidence exists about the system.   This is somewhat like the stock market, one needs to develop the stomach to buy stocks when they're on sale and the market is slumping.  The S lenses are plentiful, demand is low, prices are low...how could lenses so beautiful sell for so little.  Decisions, decisions.  

Years ago I shot a Contax 645 combination with a P30+ back, amazing imaging and picture quality.  Many days I would pass the Leica counter and see a used M9 in the case, the salesperson knew I would buy one but I kept putting it off.  He said to me, take the M9 and shoot it against your P30+ and I was awestruck at seeing the Leica pixels do things the P30+ couldn't approach.  The M9 overall had slightly lower resolution  but each pixel was clearly superior.  So, while I agree the S cameras may be forever cameras the sensor qualities are changing so rapidly that advancements may make the S bodies the P30+ back of today.  It's a win either way, we can continue using the S or adopt the newer bodies. 

Of course Leica could develop an S4 and make us very happy.  

2 hours ago, setuporg said:

SD cards are around...  so is electricity.

😀😀

 

 

[setuporg]

Well I got excited about the S system a couple years ago and amassed it all then.  It doesn't make much sense to sell it all now anyways, plus I'd need to update a few AF motors on perfectly working lenses.  The upside it that you don't have to chase the new lenses anymore.

[artontop]

On 7/13/2021 at 11:10 PM, darylgo said:

I am thinking of getting the adapter and 300mm lens, do you have any recommendations or caveats for someone not familiar with the H system and lenses?

My S006 has corrosion issues, a 007 replaced it.   I don't see much difference in the S body models, they're all good.  There's a few negatives to the S system, I continue to enjoy shooting it immensely, my SL sits unused.  The SL2 is all about state of the art digital imaging that I find too digital, the S has a smoothness that I appreciate, more film-like than digital.   A Sony move to Leica would, on the surface be a great trade but only you would know if it suits you, my S system gets too little use because of size and weight, it's easier to carry an M just as it would be with the Sony A7xxx or an SL2.  

Yep adapter, new from the shop or 2nd hand from eBay 
Hass system lenses:
28mm veery wide, but I would prefer 24mm (not sure if that adapter works with 24mm), good for architecture or landscape.
80mm - standard lens, super handy, its like 50mm from 35mm format, very useful, small and light, workhorse lens. 
100mm - IMO only for portraits, or specific condition as its super fast and super expensive (legendary lens in MF world)
150mm - another great lens for portraits or landscapes
300mm - hmm has beautiful colours & contrast, quality superb, but big & heavy so be prepared for few kg in your bag, but worth to have anyway. 

[tom0511]

I would go for S lenses, step by step. The 70 is my favorite S lens, specially for family images.

Liking MF-look doesn't mean you are mad.

I have used M, S, SL systems over years and the S does indeed deliver a special look. You need to understand that you give up some AF flexibility to compared to other systems (including SL) and you will carry heavier gear, but you gain some IQ and also the Viewfinder of S is beautiful.

But I also would like to mention that I often grab the SL2 or M because they are smaller and more flexible (SL) or even simpler (M). 

[mgrayson3]

My solution, FWIW, is to skip FF. If Leica had put IBIS in their APS-C system, I'd have stuck with that. The 11-23 zoom is fabulous. The 35/1.4 ditto, but the long zoom was too hard to focus. As it is, I went with Fuji X for the small camera. If you don't need to push the files around too much, it does quite well. I think the SL lenses are absolutely fantastic, but they are not small or light enough to get chosen over the S. 

[setuporg]

On 7/15/2021 at 3:44 PM, mgrayson3 said:

I think the SL lenses are absolutely fantastic, but they are not small or light enough to get chosen over the S. 

Yes this is the conundrum of picking the SL for a trip.  The only crucial difference is the video.

[tom0511]

Am 16.7.2021 um 00:44 schrieb mgrayson3:

..... I think the SL lenses are absolutely fantastic, but they are not small or light enough to get chosen over the S. 

Depends on the lens. If you look at the 45mm S vs 35 SL lens, or putting a 21 M SEL on the SL2 vs 24mm S, or even putting a PANA 24105 on an SL vs 30-90 on S it is quite a difference.

Still the SL is not a light camera system.

I agree the CL is  nice for travel, and I also agree the 55-135 should have IS. For my part I still enjoy shooting the SL2(-S) over CL and also feel the files are easier to post process. I only bring the CL instead if I want flexibility of an interchangable lens camera system combine with relativly small weight/size.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by tom0511

[setuporg]

Well apparently the S lens prices tanked so now is the time to get them all, e.g. in CS variants.

[darylgo]

Very very tempting, perhaps worthy of  a third "very".  Any S mirrorless news?  

[Pieter12]

The downside to all this is the S cameras with OVF have all been discontinued, so although prices are dramatically less than when they were introduced, there is always the looming possibility of them becoming doorstops if service is needed. It has already happened with the CCD versions of the S, not sure about the s007/S3. Also, some of the lenses are no longer supported due to lack of parts (the 120 and 180 AFAIK). My philosophy is to enjoy the camera and lenses while you can, but don't be surprised if they don't last close to forever (like the Hasselblad V someone mentioned earlier--although Hasselblad no longer services those either). They are complex cameras with electronics and are battery-dependent, so once batteries become unavailable and no-one starts to make a replacement or rebuild, it's over. Independent service for the S is nonexistent, unlike for manual cameras like the film Ms and Hasselblads.

[Einst_Stein]

Whether and when S3 will show up does not affect what existing S can do, but it will affect current S price. Once Leica announces when S4 would show up, all current S price will fly up and up and up.  

If you like it, get it now.  

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[sebben]

Why would they go up? There will be a whole line of new autofocusing mirrorless MF lenses launched with the S4 that will be better in every way...

[Slender]

10 minutes ago, sebben said:

Why would they go up? There will be a whole line of new autofocusing mirrorless MF lenses launched with the S4 that will be better in every way...

I can easily answer that one: it took Leica almost 10 years to complete its initial roadmap of SL lenses. The clear priority for the factory is M lenses. And they can’t even service their own existing products under 4-10 months currently…. 
 

if the S4 comes out only with 2 or 3 options at best at launch time; accounting for manufacturing and delivery delays (especially across the pond) new comers to the S will rush out to older S lenses if there is a native adapter available at launch. 
 

this will be especially more true is the camera is either somewhat affordable (less than current mainstream used S3 prices…. Matching GFX or X2d at about 8K£ here in the UK) or on the contrary so expensive (phase one territory) that people will want to save some cash and time by using existing S lenses at first.

Even more so if Leica decides to also make a new S4 a video powerhouse…. Thalia lenses cost a lot of money…. But most S lenses can be had for less than 2000£ and they allow full time manual focus that feels best in class. Manual focusing SL lenses feels very very wrong and looks bad in moving images because of the stepping motors ( you can literally see your plane of focus jumping place to place instead of linearly). Granted current S lenses don’t have hard stops but it feels nearest to this in any AF lens I tried….. and unlike fly by wire it doesn’t drift and each focus point is repeatable easily because of the physical link between lens barrel and its inner glass.
 

This happened with the M9 where any pre 2000ish lenses doubling or tripling in price second-hand. Leica couldn’t make new ones fast enough for the demand as the digital M went global.

Same happened with R glass when YouTube revealed to a wide audience how some cinematographers lust after these lenses to the mainstream public and the arriving of affordable full frame video cameras.

We already have optical perfection from Sigma and Leica…. Borderline clinical sometimes… now all the rage is about balance and I think this is where the current r S line up shines…secretly for now.