Does LR Super Resolution obviate the need to upgrade to M10-R?

[pedaes]

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2 minutes ago, SrMi said:

For me, dynamic range means how much noise is there in the shadows

And the highlights. I think detail rather than "noise'' (which is slang for artefacts).

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[setuporg]

Or you can think of dynamic range as simply how much of both shadows and highlights you can capture without losing details in either.

[SrMi]

19 minutes ago, pedaes said:

And the highlights. I think detail rather than "noise'' (which is slang for artefacts).

Detail is often determined by noise. With noise in the shadows you loose detail in the shadows. Dynamic range has nothing to do with noise in the highlights.

[SrMi]

18 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Or you can think of dynamic range as simply how much of both shadows and highlights you can capture without losing details in either.

Highlights are upper bounded by sensor saturation and determined by exposure (either manually or automatically). Dynamic range is not related to metering.

[pedaes]

12 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Detail is often determined by noise. With noise in the shadows you loose detail in the shadows. Dynamic range has nothing to do with noise in the highlights.

Tail wagging dog here. You introduced the concept of 'noise'. Think of it as you like, no worries.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Nowhereman said:

In this case you'd be trying to earn your money through pedantry, i.e., false pretenses, because I'm talking about dynamic range. But, hey, knock yourself out.
________________________
Frog Leaping photobook

Not directed at you.  But there is a difference.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

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1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I understand exposure latitude in the context of the film, but what does it mean in the context of digital sensors?

For me, dynamic range means how much noise is there in the shadows.

Others have written extensively on the topics.  Here’s one example…

https://clarkvision.com/imagedetail/exposure_latitude-1/
 

Jeff

[darylgo]

The M10-R dynamic range (sorry Jeff) is worthy of the upgrade, I read all the theory and measurements pro and con but I happen to also take images with the camera and the highlight recovery is significant.   I keep my M10-P for use with optics such as the Noctilux f1 that show greater chromatic aberrations with the R,  post processing can not correct it without significant effort if at all.  

[setuporg]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Highlights are upper bounded by sensor saturation and determined by exposure (either manually or automatically). Dynamic range is not related to metering.

What I mean is the difference between the darkest and the brightest points.  Which kind of needs metering to determine luminosity unless you’re a Sybil who just knows.:)

[setuporg]

Funny how every topic in M becomes “do I need the latest M or the previous one is still OK” regardless of the specific technical issue in hand.:)

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

In almost all cases, blown highlights are caused by metering, not by sensor itself.

not sure if you trying to justify your $$$ spent on the M10, or saying that the M10 has a terrible light-meter.

In my experience the M10 had this problem since day one and in my 20 years shooting digital can only remember the Nikon 1Dx been that difficult, some highlights would always blowout and turn yellow. In any casein is not normal to have to underexpose 1-2 stop to save highlights. You don't have to jump true obstacles on the M10R, SL2, Q2 or any of my other hassi, sony, canon cameras.

[SrMi]

45 minutes ago, setuporg said:

What I mean is the difference between the darkest and the brightest points.  Which kind of needs metering to determine luminosity unless you’re a Sybil who just knows.:)

 

[SrMi]

36 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

not sure if you trying to justify your $$$ spent on the M10, or saying that the M10 has a terrible light-meter.

In my experience the M10 had this problem since day one and in my 20 years shooting digital can only remember the Nikon 1Dx been that difficult, some highlights would always blowout and turn yellow. In any casein is not normal to have to underexpose 1-2 stop to save highlights. You don't have to jump true obstacles on the M10R, SL2, Q2 or any of my other hassi, sony, canon cameras.

I am mostly shooting with M10R and M10M. Since I frequently pay attention to the blown highlights and correct exposure accordingly, blown highlights are typically not a problem.

My point is (again): "In almost all cases, blown highlights are caused by metering, not by the sensor itself."

The fact is that for you, the metering in M10R works better than metering in M10.

P.S.: The discoloration of highlights is caused by one or two channels being blows and reconstructed using the non-blown channels.

[willeica]

18 hours ago, derleicaman said:

With the new Super Resolution feature available in Light Room Classic, theoretically a 24MP image from my M10-P becomes a 96MP image. Why would I want to upgrade to the M10-R at this point, aside from the increased dynamic range that the R offers? I was torn between acquiring an M10-R, or grabbing a NIB M10-P at a great price. I really think for most of my work, 24MP is more than enough. I was dreading having to upgrade my computer to handle 40+ MP files. 

I went with the M10-P, which will cut down on lens changing now that I have two M10-P bodies, one chrome and one black. This will be very welcome for travel when I can keep the WATE on one camera and a 35 or 50 on the other camera, or maybe even the MATE.

Jono was trying to convince me to go with the R, but I’m happy with my choice. What do you all think?

Bill, have you thought about a possible placebo effect with all those theoretical Super Resolution MPs? The pictures might not be any better, but you might feel better!

I must have this feature in my Lightroom Classic. Now, all I have to do is to wait until I actually find a need to use it. 

William 

[pedaes]

2 minutes ago, willeica said:

Now, all I have to do is to wait until I actually find a need to use it. 

I think that is the idea!

[willeica]

2 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I think that is the idea!

Keith, I'll be in touch as soon as I find one. As you know, I'm old school about the MP race.

William

Edited July 12, 2021 by willeica

[pedaes]

3 minutes ago, willeica said:

I'm old school about the MP race.

I'm with you - using M9 this week!

[Tailwagger]

4 hours ago, pedaes said:

Tail wagging dog here. You introduced the concept of 'noise'. 

Careful when invoking anything related to tail wagging... I can get very, very noisy!  😉

After a year of use, I haven't looked back.  The 10-R, AFAIC, was well worth the upgrade from the 10, but as I've mentioned in the past, the upgrade in resolution, while appreciated, isn't at the top of the list. That said, if more pixels were critical, I'd be far more inclined to rely on those gathered by the sensor over those invented via software. The question I find myself asking these days is whether or not anything in the upcoming M11 might force me to consider upgrading again anytime soon. The 10-R is a helluva a camera. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

11 hours ago, pedaes said:

Another interesting question is how does it compare to Topaz AI Sharpen https://www.topazlabs.com/sharpen-ai?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=brand_search&attribution=true&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0K-HBhDDARIsAFJ6UGhTMNgyBmiWEmluSqt25bmlyEyeL4mg0yUimt0M_joNZIAUlwRZc5saAjDvEALw_wcB

 

I can only say that in general I prefer the results of Sharpen AI and Denoise AI. to the extent that they have become an essential part of my workflow. They are impressive.
I have always maintained that the amount of detail (resolution) is far less important than the acuity of the detail. In other words, the viewer will never know that they are not seeing a detail, but they can darn well see whether the detail that they are seeing is crisp or not. BTW, my results are similar to the examples on Topaz' website. 

The only drawback is that they are rather slow on any computer but the latest Mac Silicons, which keeps many photographers from using them routinely.

 

[jaapv]

To add: We have both Denoise AI and Sharpen AI. Both do a fantastic job of denoising and sharpening, but are meant for different types of images. I just started a thread on the subject in the Digital Postprocessing forum, hoping that other users will chime in.