View thru Visoflex II/III 90deg Prismfinder?

[iek1968]

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Does one see the whole frame or a magnified part of it??

thanx for ur time and greetings!

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[Michael Hiles]

Whole frame.

[iek1968]

Thanx Michael, ur answer is extremeley helpful,

but why is the prism called a 4x magnifying eyepiece then?
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/OTXBO

 

[a.noctilux]

For just a description of the device.

I think that because virtual image of groundglass  can be observed as x4 times, just like a magnifier.

 

OTVXO is described as x5 .. a bit better  X5 magnified but the image is reversed.

same x5 as older LVFOO

Maybe ...

we are used to modern eyepiece right angle finder, like Leica 14300 which has x2 setting to magnify only center part of the view (or grounglass)

Edited June 5, 2021 by a.noctilux

[jdlaing]

1 hour ago, iek1968 said:

Thanx Michael, ur answer is extremeley helpful,

but why is the prism called a 4x magnifying eyepiece then?
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/OTXBO

 

It magnifies four times but is big enough to see a full view. It is not restrained by the rangefinder viewfinder. It gives the view through the lens like an SLR.

[luigi bertolotti]

2 hours ago, iek1968 said:

Thanx Michael, ur answer is extremeley helpful,

but why is the prism called a 4x magnifying eyepiece then?
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/OTXBO

 

to make an example... haven't you a Rolleiflex TLR ? On its ground glass you see the real image with no optical devices in the middle... a 1x magnification: but the Rolleiflex has a flip-up lens... you set it up and see an enlarged image for better focusing... but only at center. With the 4X prism of the Viso or the (excellent) "chimney finder" OTVXO you also have an enlarging...but on the whole image.

  

[iek1968]

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb luigi bertolotti:

to make an example... haven't you a Rolleiflex TLR ? On its ground glass you see the real image with no optical devices in the middle... a 1x magnification: but the Rolleiflex has a flip-up lens... you set it up and see an enlarged image for better focusing... but only at center. With the 4X prism of the Viso or the (excellent) "chimney finder" OTVXO you also have an enlarging...but on the whole image.

  

Is the view comparable in size to a Film SLR or is it considerably smaller (or larger)?

[luigi bertolotti]

1 hour ago, iek1968 said:

Is the view comparable in size to a Film SLR or is it considerably smaller (or larger)?

I have very limited experience with SLRs.... but I think that with the Viso Prism finder is comparable... someone also can answer surely better than me. 

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, iek1968 said:

Is the view comparable in size to a Film SLR or is it considerably smaller (or larger)?

Yes comparable with same lens.

I remember for Telyt lenses that I use on the two Leitz/Leica system R and M.

Just out of curiosity, I took out my trusty Leicaflex SL and mount the nice Summilux-R 80mm (I don't have 90mm R lens anymore), but as I can not mount on my Visoflex III

the "same" Mandler's creation lens 75mm, I mount the closest Elmarit 90mm unscrewed optical cell plus OTZFO/16464 on the Visoflex III + 90° (x4 viewfinder).

Each one is as good as the other, with a couple of things of very small differences:

- viewing comfort is every bit the same on SL and Viso III

- the magnification is about the same when I factor the 80mm R // M 90mm

- SL gives a greenish view (as always ! )

- comparing to the almost neutral color Visoflex III and very clear counting 90mm f/2.8 to f/1.4 on R

- cheating a bit as long time ago, I replaced the dim Visoflex III ground glass with Pentax LX's plain screen ( I had that screen at hand to try out ).

- funny that the diopter lens correction is the same on the two systems, 14376 for SL and prism 16499

[iek1968]

vor 37 Minuten schrieb a.noctilux:

Yes comparable with same lens.

I remember for Telyt lenses that I use on the two Leitz/Leica system R and M.

Just out of curiosity, I took out my trusty Leicaflex SL and mount the nice Summilux-R 80mm (I don't have 90mm R lens anymore), but as I can not mount on my Visoflex III

the "same" Mandler's creation lens 75mm, I mount the closest Elmarit 90mm unscrewed optical cell plus OTZFO/16464 on the Visoflex III + 90° (x4 viewfinder).

Each one is as good as the other, with a couple of things of very small differences:

- viewing comfort is every bit the same on SL and Viso III

- the magnification is about the same when I factor the 80mm R // M 90mm

- SL gives a greenish view (as always ! )

- comparing to the almost neutral color Visoflex III and very clear counting 90mm f/2.8 to f/1.4 on R

- cheating a bit as long time ago, I replaced the dim Visoflex III ground glass with Pentax LX's plain screen ( I had that screen at hand to try out ).

- funny that the diopter lens correction is the same on the two systems, 14376 for SL and prism 16499

Thanks this is really helpful, I own the Elmarit 90mm and I am looking for a Visoflex II + 90 deg prism in good condition.

Edited June 5, 2021 by iek1968

[iek1968]

Has anyone opend up/repaired a Visoflex II? I found a good offer but the mirror does not fully return down. Should I buy it and attempt to fix it?

[spydrxx]

Don’t bother. There is an adjustment screw, but no guarantee that will solve the problem. There are lots of good ones in great shape out there. If you’re buying one to use on the M6 just be aware you need the newer model viewfinder portion as it incorporates the extra rise needed to clear the top of the body. The only drawback to this model is that it doesn’t have adjustable focus to accommodate vision differences.

[Michael Geschlecht]

3 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Yes comparable with same lens.

I remember for Telyt lenses that I use on the two Leitz/Leica system R and M.

Just out of curiosity, I took out my trusty Leicaflex SL and mount the nice Summilux-R 80mm (I don't have 90mm R lens anymore), but as I can not mount on my Visoflex III

the "same" Mandler's creation lens 75mm, I mount the closest Elmarit 90mm unscrewed optical cell plus OTZFO/16464 on the Visoflex III + 90° (x4 viewfinder).

Each one is as good as the other, with a couple of things of very small differences:

- viewing comfort is every bit the same on SL and Viso III

- the magnification is about the same when I factor the 80mm R // M 90mm

- SL gives a greenish view (as always ! )

- comparing to the almost neutral color Visoflex III and very clear counting 90mm f/2.8 to f/1.4 on R

- cheating a bit as long time ago, I replaced the dim Visoflex III ground glass with Pentax LX's plain screen ( I had that screen at hand to try out ).

- funny that the diopter lens correction is the same on the two systems, 14376 for SL and prism 16499

Hello Arnaud,

When Leitz developed the Leicaflex they made the decision to use the already existant Visoflex correction lenses on the Leicaflex bodies. If you look in their catalogs from that time period you will see that they have used the same code numbers for both Visoflex diopters & Leicaflex diopters from the beginning of Leicaflex production.

Best Regards,

Michael

[a.noctilux]

9 hours ago, iek1968 said:

Has anyone opend up/repaired a Visoflex II? I found a good offer but the mirror does not fully return down. Should I buy it and attempt to fix it?

I'd take Visoflex III over II, maybe as long time user of III and never have the II

even if I don't use so often the "quick mirror return" position on the III mainly for the vibrations in hand held use

 

6 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Arnaud,

When Leitz developed the Leicaflex they made the decision to use the already existant Visoflex correction lenses on the Leicaflex bodies. If you look in their catalogs from that time period you will see that they have used the same code numbers for both Visoflex diopters & Leicaflex diopters from the beginning of Leicaflex production.

Best Regards,

Michael

Hello Michael,

Thanks for the history.

Famous compatibility 🙂.

As said, I use same optical cells of Telyt 6.8/400mm and 560mm with the right mount, 11905 on Visoflex and 11906 on R/Leicaflex

 

I mention that funny thing as old user 'along' of Leicaflex SL/Visoflex III, happy at that old time to have this famous Leitz appreciated compatibility.

 

For some decades that I used the R cameras with in-viewfinder continuous diopter correction, I forgot this,

now I re-discovered this antique R/M compatibility.

[Michael Hiles]

The diopters shared by the Leicaflex SL and the prism of the Visoflex III are basically unavailable, which makes the Visoflex unusable for someone who needs the correction eye pieces. A shame, because the Visoflex III is quite nice. The adjuster is built into the prism that goes with the Visoflex II – an important advantage.

[a.noctilux]

I found solutions for those diopters, as user ... twofold ...

1 - I just used my glasses when viewing helped by the large eyepieces of Leicaflex SL /Visoflex III

2  - when my vision changed, if need be I had the mount of 14376 (or whatever one) equipped with another correction glass cut in it's shape

just verified that, minutes ago the mount unscrewed to replace the 'right' glass inside,

the round glass can be cut from any good optician in prescription (or trying in the shop, what I did by then ! ),

astigmatism correction was also possible ( they told me ), incredible

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Arnaud,

As far as I know Leitz never made correction lenses corrected for astigmatism for the Leicaflex/Visoflex. For 
"M" cameras correction lenses for astigmatism were available as 14059 and for Screw Mount models there were 14066, 14065 & 14069 versions depending on which Screw Mount camera model was involved.

Best Regards,

Michael