Highlights of the 38th Leitz Photographic Auction

[tranquilo67]

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45 minutes ago, willeica said:

Thanks Augusto

You know my view that it is the market which values items. Auctioneers can get caught with too high a start price and no traction. The M6 is a wooden dummy produced before real manufacture started. These are difficult to price as there is no 'defined market'. Next Saturday will tell. I have bought the new edition of the Wilhelm Albert book and I will be reviewing it for the UK Leica Society. I will need some help from Lars as a lot of what is in it is handwritten in German in Albert's diaries. There are some astonishing items in the book, including a monstrous 2000mm (200cm) f4 lens produced by Leitz in the 1930s. Will post a picture of that here some day. 

 

Wilson, there is an old expression that goes ' if you're not in, you can't win' . The first thing you have to abandon going into an auction is the notion of a 'correct price'. The only 'correct price' is your own limit and your second story shows that admirably. You need to have your own limit where you will pull out as you have no idea how far others are prepared to go.

William

 

Hi William!!

Is this a wooden sample? It looks real to my eye!!! https://wlpa.auction2000.online/auk/w.object?inC=WLPA&inA=20200729_1055&inO=123&inSiteLang=ENGLISH

Regarding Wilhem Albert's book, have you got the new version just published or the old Leica Historica red one? (Edit: just re-read the post and see that you have the new edition, sorry).

Best wishes,

Augusto

PS: And absolutely agree!! Prices are fixed by demand but my taste is not always aligned with the collector's targets.

Edited June 8, 2021 by tranquilo67

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[willeica]

1 hour ago, tranquilo67 said:

Hi William!!

Is this a wooden sample? It looks real to my eye!!! https://wlpa.auction2000.online/auk/w.object?inC=WLPA&inA=20200729_1055&inO=123&inSiteLang=ENGLISH

Regarding Wilhem Albert's book, have you got the new version just published or the old Leica Historica red one? (Edit: just re-read the post and see that you have the new edition, sorry).

Best wishes,

Augusto

PS: And absolutely agree!! Prices are fixed by demand but my taste is not always aligned with the collector's targets.

Thanks Augusto. I was looking at another one. The wooden dummy example is also there if you want to check it. The market will decide on both items.

William

Edited June 8, 2021 by willeica

[Pyrogallol]

I was at a country auction a few years ago, in a room with about 30 people. An oil painting came up, a dull head and shoulders portrait of a man. It started at £400, worked its way up to £1000, room bidders dropped out, Internet bidders pushed it up to about £3000, it kept going up and up, finally it came down to two telephone bidders and slowly kept going up, in a now silent room, until it arrived at £30000.

The silence broke and people in the room started clapping.

What I thought was that the auction house made a big mistake with their estimate of the value. I still don’t know what the painting was or who painted it.

[pgk]

To be fair, sometimes it is very difficult to value stuff. My father-in-law left a collection of books some of which went to auction. One item, a small pamphlet entitled 'A call for an expedition to the South Pole' by the RGS (I'm sure everyone knows the result!) proved difficult to value, as no sales of other copies could be found and the auctioneer suggested £80~120 in lieu of a precedent having been set, but couldn't really suggest whether this would be valid. In the event it went for well into 4 figures if my memory serves me correctly! So rare it was the first to have been sold for a very long time. Sometimes only an auction can set the price.

[pippy]

20 minutes ago, pgk said:

To be fair, sometimes it is very difficult to value stuff...

Yup. Anyone else hereabouts interested in vintage guitars?

Two years ago (actually on the 20th June 2019) Christie's Auctioneers were hosting the sale of David Gilmour's (of Pink Floyd fame) Guitars and Paraphernalia. The Star Lot (and final item to be sold) was his famous 'Black Strat' which had been used by him on all of the Floyd's albums from their hay-days. The estimate (which even I knew was miles out) was set at $100,000 - $150,000. Being out by a factor of around 30x might be seen as an underestimation (it sold for an eye-watering $3,975,000) but in terms of sheer percentages this 'low-ball' guess was nothing in comparison to how far they were out when valuing the guitar's flight case. The upper estimate was $2,000. They were just $173,000 out.......

The case was the lot being sold immediately before the guitar came on the block and I remember thinking "Crikey! I sincerely hope the person who bought the case still has enough cash left to buy the guitar!!!"...

Happily he did.

Incidentally the auction raised $21.5 million and Mr. Gilmour, being the nice chap that he is, gave all the proceeds to charity.

Philip.

EDIT : I meant to say earlier that the pamphlet you mentioned must have been an extraordinary thing to have had! Fantastic bit of true history!

Edited June 8, 2021 by pippy

[pedaes]

Did anyone buy anything today? Apart from usual flyers (Lexus, Black Paint, Prototypes etc), prices seemed reasonable.

[luigi bertolotti]

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20 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Did anyone buy anything today? Apart from usual flyers (Lexus, Black Paint, Prototypes etc), prices seemed reasonable.

I SOLD something... (not the black IIIg which went for 408.000 Euro 😆. imho the biggest surprise in term of price)

Edited June 12, 2021 by luigi bertolotti

[pedaes]

1 minute ago, luigi bertolotti said:

I SOLD something... 

Congratulations! Hope yours was a Lot that exceeded top estimate!

Must have been a quality item to make this Auction!

[luigi bertolotti]

I was joking... have made my first test of putting an item on auction... but didn't reach my reserve.... 

[wlaidlaw]

I was disappointed that the 250FF Reporter did not sell (neither did the 250GG). I wanted to get an idea of the potential value of my 250FF, which is in similar cosmetic condition to the one shown in the catalogue but when Malcolm Taylor has finished with it, I suspect mine will be in a better mechanical state. Mine also has a lovely matching early nickel Sonnar from 1933 on it. 

Wilson

 

 

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[willeica]

1 hour ago, luigi bertolotti said:

I was joking... have made my first test of putting an item on auction... but didn't reach my reserve.... 

I saw that, Luigi. Today was the first time that I heard reserves being openly mentioned at the auction, but they don't say that a reserve has not been reached at hammer time, so the price reached is actually shown on Live Auctioneers

1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said:

I was disappointed that the 250FF Reporter did not sell (neither did the 250GG). I wanted to get an idea of the potential value of my 250FF, which is in similar cosmetic condition to the one shown in the catalogue but when Malcolm Taylor has finished with it, I suspect mine will be in a better mechanical state. Mine also has a lovely matching early nickel Sonnar from 1933 on it. 

Wilson

The first one reached €7,000 on an estimate of €6,000-7,000, so it is surprising that this did not reach a reserve. The second one reached €10,000 on an estimate of €20,000-24,000 ( which I thought was very optimistic) so it is a bit less surprising that one did not reach its reserve.

The black IIIg set was the surprise of the auction, I would suspect that this was two (or more) Asian buyers going head to head. It was announced at the beginning of the auction that Leitz Auction now has banking facilities in China, which is not surprising.

Prices were generally buoyant throughout the auction, with the Russian items featuring a lot of competition as I expected. A Russian Marine Rifle Camera went for €144,000.

The price for the Walker Evans Rolleiflex set was disappointing, but they sold it immediately after the lunch break. Also provenance is a variable factor and maybe this might have sold for more with a different type of audience.

William 

 

[PG Black nickel]

Usually I sell at leitz auction, I had good surprises but also bad ones 

For the first time I bought from them, the SCNOO-C which will go very well with my old III C (#3606XX), the price did not go up too much! 

I also find that the prices were reasonable except on some items for which collectors (or investors) fought.

[wlaidlaw]

38 minutes ago, PG Black nickel said:

Usually I sell at leitz auction, I had good surprises but also bad ones 

For the first time I bought from them, the SCNOO-C which will go very well with my old III C (#3606XX), the price did not go up too much! 

I also find that the prices were reasonable except on some items for which collectors (or investors) fought.

I might have been bidding against you for the SCNOO-C except:

a) I have just bought a MOOLY-C at a very reasonable price for my IIIc and.....

b) Reasonable price not withstanding, the piggy bank is now near empty. 

Wilson

[PG Black nickel]

Thanks for not bidding, I was looking for this rapid winder for a long time.

there was a molly-C in a recent sale at leitz or Wetzlar that went for 1000 € and that I would have liked to have, these are items that are not often seen. 

Our friend Kevin in HongKong is selling one for 1400 €! that's not reasonable!

[wlaidlaw]

Some Leica specialists are asking over €5000 for a MOOLY-C. Oddly the chrome ones used to cost more than the black ones but now it is the other way round. I have bought a chrome one which cosmetically is near perfect but at some point I may get the old lubricants cleaned out and replaced with new. The MOOLY's need two different lubricants. A high film strength low temperature grease for the dual concentric springs and clock oil for the pivot points of the gear train but no oil on the gears. Nowadays these lubricants have improved hugely in the last 80+ years and the new products are non-drying and non-oxidising. 

Wilson

[luigi bertolotti]

Looking at the results.... I am a bit surprised that the Elmarit 21 E49 went unsold... in my opinion (but of course anyone has one) it's more interesting than the black Summicron 35 M3 that went for 43K Euros..

[wlaidlaw]

I would imagine some far eastern buyer is working out how he can hide the invoice for the black IIIg from his wife 

Wilson

PS Now where did I put that spray can of black paint? 

Edited June 13, 2021 by wlaidlaw

[mmx_2]

On 6/12/2021 at 5:15 PM, luigi bertolotti said:

I SOLD something... (not the black IIIg which went for 408.000 Euro 😆. imho the biggest surprise in term of price)

Would you recommend using Westlicht? I have a few items that I’m considering to sell. I know there is also Wetzlar Auctions. Maybe contact both and negotiate on lowest possible auction fee 😄😄

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[derleicaman]

Item # 123 was of interest to me. Claims to be the first Leica M6 sold, #1657252, with #1657251 being the one in the Museum.

I have M6 #1649633! This was a Photokina camera from 1984. It was one of the cameras shown to the public when introduced. This has been confirmed by Stefan Daniel. I purchased this camera through E. Leitz New Jersey as a dealer. I was at that Photokina for the intro, so I may even have handled my camera at the time.

So what does this make my camera? This number should belong to the numbers allocated to a batch of M4-P cameras, 1649251-1651250. Clearly my camera is an M6, not an M4-P. Perhaps the Ur-M6! 🙂

[zeitz]

We do know one thing; the claim that #1657252 is the first Leica M6 sold could be incorrect, not knowing the delivery dates to actual customers.  Further #1657251 in the Museum may be relatively insignificant.  Did Stefan give you the serial numbers of the other M6 cameras in your batch?