Rangefinder adjustment depending on the lens

[nineteenfocus]

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My rangefinder (MP) was adjusted to use and old lens (50mm summicron V3). Do I have to send it to recalibrate to use a new lens? (new summicron from factory). does it happen often to have to calibrate the rangefinder depending on the lens?

[250swb]

You should never ever have the rangefinder calibrated for one lens or a lens calibrated for one specific the rangefinder. You've wasted your money the first time and are doomed to have it serviced again, but this time choose somebody who knows what they are doing.

[nineteenfocus]

Leica store

Infinity was not aligned in the rangefinder with my old lens (it was short), after service it, infinity is spot on. They didn’t charge me. Just wondering if they only adjust the infinity limit that might not affect the calibration, does that make sense?

[jaapv]

 

2 hours ago, nineteenfocus said:

does it happen often to have to calibrate the rangefinder depending on the lens?

It should never happen.

The rangefinder should NEVER be adjusted to a specific lens. Both lens and camera are calibrated to a common standard. Otherwise it would be impossible to switch lenses. As Jeff said.

Although the rangefinder can be adjusted for infinity and close range, both adjustments do influence each other. In general, adjusting infinity (an easy DIY operation) is often sufficient.

Someone who knows what he is doing will advise you to send in your complete system, to make sure all components are properly adjusted.

[Gobert]

I do not think that Leica calibrates bodies to lenses. They calibrate a body to the standard and then calibrate the lense to the body.

[nineteenfocus]

I gave the body and the lens because at inf wasn’t aligned with the rangefinder. They gave me back the body and the lens with the inf aligned. They said that they didn’t do anything to the lens

[250swb]

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47 minutes ago, nineteenfocus said:

I gave the body and the lens because at inf wasn’t aligned with the rangefinder. They gave me back the body and the lens with the inf aligned. They said that they didn’t do anything to the lens

OK so if the body needed adjusting for inifinity they probably simply calibrated that. Good. Your original description made it sound like the body was calibrated to force it to work with the specific lens. So any further lenses should also work and you shouldn't need any more calibration done.

[nineteenfocus]

thanks for the info. can you direct to any webpage where the calibrating or infinity adjusting is described? or what is the main difference?

[jaapv]

I can describe it right here:

Take a 2 mm Allen Key, look for the roller wheel inside the camera mouth, insert the key and turn by SMALL increments, checking each time whether you are going in the right direction and have reached adjustment. Take care not to put strain on the arm of the wheel, if you bend that you will have mid-range calibration thrown out.

 

[Ecar]

2 hours ago, nineteenfocus said:

thanks for the info. can you direct to any webpage where the calibrating or infinity adjusting is described? or what is the main difference?

 

[earleygallery]

I think the idea with a camera like the M is that one can swap lenses, but using the same camera body. Pretty pointless if you have to send your camera back to the manufacturer every time you want to use a different lens.

OK, the very first Leica models might have had bodies matched to lenses but they've apparently progressed since then.

Edited May 11, 2021 by earleygallery

[darylgo]

Not my experience with Leica, different bodies behave differently with the same lenses.  M240 received our of alignment, M60 perfect alignment, M10-P out of alignment, M10-R perfect alignment.  Same with lenses but rarely are they adjusted properly upon receipt.  Practically every lens needs ajustment.  I've recently tested infinity alignment on M lens, most are perfect.  One lens was extremely misaligned it was sent to Dag, upon return it continued to be slightly off.  

There are several variables with the rangefinder, including me eyes, distance being a second.  When I am critically testing lenses it is apparent the rangefinder system has flaws, what system doesn't?  When  photographing where focus is critical I take several images.  It is often times that a miss focused image looks sharp until I compare it to one that hits focus perfectly, the difference is then obvious but a slight misfocus is often times acceptable and I would estimate a 24mp sensor slight misfocus image is as good as a 6-12mp sensor.  

All in all I'd rather use a rangefinder than an AF system that focuses arbitrarily well on the wrong spot.  

[Stein K S]

Hi 

I just felt the urge to forward my little ¨frustration¨... I have a newly serviced M10. And a newly service APO 75. But I still have a challenge of getting the focus right (front focus) with this combo while I am OK with all other lenses (from 50 and wider...). Consequently I have chosen to and learned to live with this

 

However, when receiving my new 50 lux BC, I again experince a very slight front focus when fully open. Really marginal, but possible to give that very very little additional twist with the focus ring to get it right.

Question is; is this something that ¨the roller¨ should/could be adjusted for? Or is it within tolerance... or maybe it is due to calibration being adjusted to another aperture?

 

I do hesitate to mess too much with this as I do ¨manage¨ afterall... but still find it somewhat frustrating... Anyone else in the same boat?

 

Regards,

[jaapv]

Take the whole kit to a trusted repair workshop and have it calibrated. Everything should work together flawlessly.

[darylgo]

Jaapv's advise worked well for me, New Jersey twice with the whole kit did not do it correctly.  In frustration I did a shotgun approach and wrote to everyone I could.   A manager in Germany contacted New Jersey, New Jersey was sent the whole kit again and it was fixed properly in one week.  Third time was a charm.  

[adan]

9 hours ago, Stein K S said:

I just felt the urge to forward my little ¨frustration¨... I have a newly serviced M10. And a newly service APO 75. But I still have a challenge of getting the focus right (front focus) with this combo while I am OK with all other lenses (from 50 and wider...). Consequently I have chosen to and learned to live with this

However, when receiving my new 50 lux BC, I again experince a very slight front focus when fully open.

Well, the 75 APO-Summicron has been known for calibration problems. The source (IMHO) is the floating element, which means there are two separate movements taking place when focusing - the overall lens, and the FLE on its own thread. In other words, the optical formula itself is subtly changing as the lens is focused. Yet another place for an error to creep in.

I got a 75 APO Summicron when they came out (2004), and it focused beautifully. Then I sold it to finance my first M8, and for over a decade could not find a replacement that focused consistently. Tried 5-6 examples over the years.

In 2017 I finally found another that was spot on (recent new-Wetzlar construction). But 4 years later even that one has started to drift, while all my other lenses 21-135 (and not FLE) focus correctly.

So I'm just saying that particular lens model may be a special case. A beautiful optic when it is behaving, but a bit of a "hangar queen" mechanically.

_______________

hangar queen - noun; pilot slang for an aircraft that spends most of its time in the hangar being serviced, rather than flying.

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, adan said:

12 hours ago, Stein K S said:

 

Well, the 75 APO-Summicron has been known for calibration problems. The source (IMHO) is the floating element, which means there are two separate movements taking place when focusing - the overall lens, and the FLE on its own thread. In other words, the optical formula itself is subtly changing as the lens is focused. Yet another place for an error to creep in.

That is quite correct - the tolerances in the FLE mechanism are exceedingly small. The Summilux 50 suffered from the same problem. Mine was retrned soon after I bought it for close-up front focus. I had to wait months for CS to obtain parts that were within tolerance - after that the lens was spot-on.

[Stein K S]

Hi again

And thank you Adan and Jaap (probably the two most knowledgeable people in this forum 😀👍!)!

A simple infinity test show that all of my other Leica lenses (10 lenses of which more than half are quite recently serviced, the M10 body was also newly serviced to work properly with a MATE) are spot on. While the Apo 75 and 50 lux bc are (slightly) out. I think I will leave the apo 75 as is. But the beautiful & new out of the box 50 lux bc is really irritating. 
 

Jaap commented that I should send the entire set in. But could it still be sufficient to ask for a re-calibration of the new 50 lux bc only? Sending in the entire set do feel a bit unneccesary...

I know that there are no clear «answers» on issues like this... but ask more in the direction of «what would you do» 😉

 

regards,

[newtoleica]

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I've just purchased used APO 75 M from MBP. It looks perfect cosmetically but the rangefinder is focussing in front of the actual focus point by 15mm or so. It's the same both short and long distances. M10-P is fine with other lenses and was serviced by Leica last year. So - should I just return the lens or get it calibrated by (say) Aperture in London? 

First image LV, 2nd RF.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2024 by newtoleica

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[M11 for me]

Was that taken on a tripod?