Leica M4P irregular light leak

[FromMyLens]

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I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on a light leak issue I have with my m4p.  I use my camera for street photography, so I walk around with the lens cap off. I also have the camera in a leather half case, which covers the back door.  I seem to get a light leak on random frames, from the bottom right hand corner.  I figure it can't be the door as the rear of the camera is covered and the sills look in order.  Has anyone experienced similar faults or have any remedy suggestions prior to sending it off for a repair?

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[jankap]

Could be the shutter. Does it also happen at different exposure times?

[FromMyLens]

I generally shoot between 1/125 - 1/500. But yes it's across various settings.  

[jankap]

I think, that it is the shutter. On the last part of the traject it moves slower. Perhaps dirt or lubrication. 

[FromMyLens]

So full steam ahead for a CLA I suppose?

[jerzy]

yes, CLA or at least partial disassembly. Photo shows internals of M3 with M4 is is the same. Arrow points to guide rails for the opening curtain, at the end of its travel. Rails is either deformed or displaced  and slows down the opening curtain. We may see underexposed stripe on the sample photo above. At the very end opening curtain could speed up again and exposure is better. Effect will vary depending on the speed set. Not a big issue but rails is hidden behind light baffle, so at least partial dismount is needed.

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But what are the white dots on the curtain, on the right side? This is opening curtain, I believe, fabric side. Looks to me like moisture damage (fungus).

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by jerzy

[FromMyLens]

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Ok. Gonna be a nightmare waiting for 6 mths for the cla to get done in UK.  

 

I bought the camera off eBay in Japan. It's mint, but the marks look like the camera was stored for years.  

 

[adan]

Could be shutter bounce, as an alternative to the shutter slowing down. Second curtain rebounds open again for a couple of mm and a fraction of a second extra.

Still requires servicing in any case.

The pale dots can be oxidation of the rubber in the rubberized cloth. Just as some rubber focus rings get white oxide on the surface. (usually SLR lenses, but also some well-used Summarits). Although I suppose a previous case of fungus could be the cause of the oxidation (life is generally not either/or ).

See pix of (not with) this 75 Summarit example's patchy-oxidized focus ring: https://findingrange.com/2014/02/28/leica-75mm-summarit-m-f2-5-lens-review/

Oxidation does not necessarily mean a light leak. The "pale" rubber is still probably opaque.

[250swb]

I'm not so sure it is oxidation of the actual rubber in the shutter cloth, or the focus ring, as oxidation to my mind is when rubber cracks (like the sidewall of old tyres) or turns sticky. But when the mould release agent eventually dries out it forms a white wax like surface, so it's that that has oxidised. On a focus ring a cloth with a dab of white spirit removes it. I think a release agent will have been used in the manufacture of the shutter cloth but obviously you wouldn't want to try and remove it. I agree it's not likely to be fungus, I've seen the same thing on many cloth shutter cameras that are fungus free. 

[adan]

Looks like we are both close - but no cigar.

White stuff on rubber is actually called "blooming" and is the result of various components of the rubber compound, separating out and rising to the surface over time.

In any event, mostly cosmetic.

https://www.rubber-pvc-hose.com/why-do-rubber-products-turn-white/

 

[FromMyLens]

Hi All, many thanks for taking the time to comment on the post.  I gave Camserve a call last week and spoke with Steve.  He mentioned that this is a known issue with mechanical camera not used and the issue is related to the shutter curtain.  It has 1 of 2 remedies, one he can help with under a general CLA, and 2 replacement which is more expensive and he cant.  He obviously wouldn’t commit until he sees the camera, so will take a visit next month.  

My fingers are crossed as I bought the camera from Japan as it was in mint condition.  Its clear that it has been unused for years, so I’m hoping that its not too major a job to resolve.

Thanks again, much appreciated.  Steve.

[FromMyLens]

Hi everyone. Thanks for the help. I went to see Steve at Camserve.  Phenomenal service.  It was the second shutter curtain. Had the camera CLA'd and demantled for full clean. Supposedly the Japanese ebayer opened the camera up to clean dirt of the inside of the range finder, didn't out it back together properly.  ?!

 

Steve was excellent. A call each week with an update, took three weeks.  Would highly recommend them. Steve is old school, a gent.  

Shot roll today. A completely new user expense.   👍🌟🌟

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