Summicron 50mm f2 vs Summarit 50mm f2.5

[Big Jim]

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Thanks everyone. I guess I’m getting frustrated because despite reading lots of reviews of various 50mm lenses I seem to be getting more lost (too much choice) and seem unable to narrow down the choice ! 

I’m good for a vintage 50mm lens. So it’s really a more modern lens that I’m after. I only shoot film. 
 

I like lenses that are sharp but not clinically so. I don’t necessarily need a fast lens. I don’t like hyper real colour images or saturated black and white shots. I don’t mind a lens that imposes some character though. I guess I’m looking for a classic 60s/70s black and white look combined with natural looking colours when shooting colour film. You can see some examples of my photos here. 

My budget is limited so I checked out the Leica Lenses for Normal People website which led me to the Summarit f2.4 or f2.5. Then I thought the Summicron f2 V3 might be an option as it seems less popular and therefore to fall in the same price range. 
It’s probably illogical but I lust after a Leica lens on my M3 but I could be convinced otherwise ! 

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Edited January 14 by Big Jim
Typo

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[lct]

You may wish to ask our colleague @adan about the Summicron 50/2 v3, i seem to recall he knows well this lens i bought new half a century ago but i did not keep it and my memory is not good enough to report about it.

[hansvons]

21 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

You can see some examples of my photos here. 

A wealth of inspiring pictures. Impressive!

I also shoot 95% of my stuff on film. I’m a 35mm guy, but I own a 50mm Summicron V4 for the occasional portrait. The V4 has a tab and is relatively affordable for a Leica lens because it’s made in Canada (why’s that a bad thing?!). OK, it’s neutral in character, sharp enough at f/2, and has that je ne sais quoi, which makes it a forever-keeper.

On film, I like lenses that are sharp. Film in itself is already filled with soul to the brim. Proper focus doesn’t hurt. The 50mm Summarit should tick that box. Its 35mm sibling is everything I need for landscape photography. Hope that helps.

[BradS]

Yeah, I agree with @_tc. Don't obsess about it. Just get one and take pictures, take lots of pictures. After 100 rolls of film with the same lens, you may or may not still think you need/want something different. Looking at you flickr page, you seem to be doing just fine with what you have. Go make photos and be happy.

 

EDIT: Jeez, you are making beautiful work with that Summitar and the Japanese Summilux!  Just keep going with those.

Edited January 15 by BradS

[Big Jim]

6 hours ago, BradS said:

Yeah, I agree with @_tc. Don't obsess about it. Just get one and take pictures, take lots of pictures. After 100 rolls of film with the same lens, you may or may not still think you need/want something different. Looking at you flickr page, you seem to be doing just fine with what you have. Go make photos and be happy.

 

EDIT: Jeez, you are making beautiful work with that Summitar and the Japanese Summilux!  Just keep going with those.

Thanks a lot ! Appreciated! I guess you are right !! I do tend to obsess ! My Summitar is great in certain situations (not in bright sun) and colour rendering is a bit too 70s looking or washed out for me. Japanese Summilux has a long focus throw which frustrates me a bit and it’s a bit bulky. 
On the other hand I’m rarely disappointed with my modern Voigtländer 35 1.4 Nokton MC. Was just awarded Explore on Flickr today for a photo taken with this. So I guess I’m looking for a 50mm equivalent. 

Edited January 15 by Big Jim
Text

[hansvons]

7 hours ago, BradS said:

EDIT: Jeez, you are making beautiful work with that Summitar and the Japanese Summilux!  Just keep going with those.

@Big Jim absolutely. BTW, the Japanese Summilux Steel Rim is brilliant, not only for its price! 

[hansvons]

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43 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

On the other hand I’m rarely disappointed with my modern Voigtländer 35 1.4 Nokton MC. Was just awarded Explore on Flickr today for a photo taken with this. So I guess I’m looking for a 50mm equivalent. 

Congrats!

Japanese Summilux V1 (Steel Rim) = Voigtlander Nokton f/1.4 SC V2. I have this lens besides a 35mm Summicron ASPH and they complement each other perfectly. No need for a real Summilux. 

At the risk of boring you, the 50mm Summicron V4 will be a fitting companion. Why? Because it’s as small as it gets for a fifty, has a tab, and the f/2 is plenty fast for a fifty (focus/depth of field).  

[lct]

Another companion of the Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2 could be the Nokton 50/1.5 SC v2. Similar rendering in the same compact size as the Sonnar 50/1.5 with a 0.7m instead of 0.9m MFD. I don't know if it is still sold by Cosina though.

[pippy]

Not sure if it helps but when I was considering various Summicron I decided, on balance, that - like mentioned by Hansvons a few times - the v4 ticked more of my 'Wish' boxes than the others. Ultimately the v3 was the other which I considered but, from what I had read, the v4 has 'better' sharpness across the image area whereas the v3 shades the v4 in terms of greater contrast-transmission.

My decision for the v4 was shaped by how I would be using the lens and came in two parts. Firstly the ability to resolve detail with more clarity was the major factor due, in a large way, to my typical subject-matter. Second was because I will be using the lens almost uniquely on a digi-M and it is far easier to add contrast in a pleasing way than it is to 'add' sharpness.

Philip.

[BradS]

6 hours ago, hansvons said:

Japanese Summilux V1 (Steel Rim) = Voigtlander Nokton f/1.4 SC V2. ....

This is true of course - the 35mm f/1.4 Nokton-II is almost a direct copy of the early 35mm summilux - but since we're talking about the 50mm focal length, I was referring to @Big Jim's Canon 50mm f/1.4

 

[BradS]

8 hours ago, Big Jim said:

Thanks a lot ! Appreciated! I guess you are right !! I do tend to obsess ! My Summitar is great in certain situations (not in bright sun) and colour rendering is a bit too 70s looking or washed out for me. Japanese Summilux has a long focus throw which frustrates me a bit and it’s a bit bulky. 
On the other hand I’m rarely disappointed with my modern Voigtländer 35 1.4 Nokton MC. Was just awarded Explore on Flickr today for a photo taken with this. So I guess I’m looking for a 50mm equivalent. 

OK, so, you need/want a little different lens in the 50mm focal length for color film. Something a little more modern.  Makes perfect sense. You will not be disappointed by the modern 50mm Summarit. As I said earlier, I really cannot recommend the v.4 or v.5 Summicron due to its propensity to flare ... but other than that, it is a lovely lens.  I'd personally go for a Planar (I did! ) or one of the many Voigtlander 50mm lenses - stick with the Nokton or Color-Skopar or Ultron and you really can't go wrong (I'd avoid that "dreamy" Heliar!)....I'm personally also very curious about the new 50mm Summicon v.2 replica made by Light Lens Lab. After the collapsible, the rigid is my personal favorite 50mm Summicron.

So lots of good choices - all of 'em good! Just pick one and go with it.

Edited January 15 by BradS

[Vanillasludge]

18 hours ago, Big Jim said:

Thanks everyone. I guess I’m getting frustrated because despite reading lots of reviews of various 50mm lenses I seem to be getting more lost (too much choice) and seem unable to narrow down the choice ! 

I’m good for a vintage 50mm lens. So it’s really a more modern lens that I’m after. I only shoot film. 
 

I like lenses that are sharp but not clinically so. I don’t necessarily need a fast lens. I don’t like hyper real colour images or saturated black and white shots. I don’t mind a lens that imposes some character though. I guess I’m looking for a classic 60s/70s black and white look combined with natural looking colours when shooting colour film. You can see some examples of my photos here. 

My budget is limited so I checked out the Leica Lenses for Normal People website which led me to the Summarit f2.4 or f2.5. Then I thought the Summicron f2 V3 might be an option as it seems less popular and therefore to fall in the same price range. 
It’s probably illogical but I lust after a Leica lens on my M3 but I could be convinced otherwise ! 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

For what it’s worth I have had two v4 Summicrons and two V3’s and I returned to the V3 for its better field flatness and glare resistance.  There are no bad Summicrons so do what fits your budget.  

[hansvons]

55 minutes ago, BradS said:

As I said earlier, I really cannot recommend the v.4 or v.5 Summicron due to its propensity to flare ...

Others are looking precisely for that. The Summicron's flares are super-nice. And you have to make them flare on purpose. 

[lct]

Hate to recall it but the otherwise very good Summarit 50/2.5 (no experience with 50/2.4) can flare as badly or worse than Summicron 50/2 v4 or v5 when the sun is outside the frame. For better performance there i would try a Planar 50/2 or a Skopar 50/2.2 but my experience with the latter is too short to be sure. Summilux 50/1.4 asph and pre-asph are more expensive but well reputed.

[BradS]

20 minutes ago, hansvons said:

Others are looking precisely for that. The Summicron's flares are super-nice.

Yup. I get that.  For my taste, flare is the absolute worst thing a lens can do.  I may be the only person here who feels that way but that's how I feel. Which is why I use the Planar.

Edited January 15 by BradS

[TomB_tx]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Hate to recall it but the otherwise very good Summarit 50/2.5 (no experience with 50/2.4) can flare as badly or worse than Summicron 50/2 v4 or v5 when the sun is outside the frame.

Yes, the 59 Summarit design is basically a Summicron configuration with smaller aperture. Same characteristics including the central veiling flare in those situations. The 2.5 rectangular hood is fairly effective, but was made to also allow the FOV of the Summarit 35 (which hardly needs a hood), so it could have been made better for the 50.

[01af]

vor einer Stunde schrieb TomB_tx:

The 2.5 rectangular hood is fairly effective, but was made to also allow the FOV of the Summarit-M 35 mm (which hardly needs a hood), so it could have been made better for the 50 mm.

Yes, the Summarit-M 35 mm hardly needs a hood because it is one of the most flare-free lenses ever ... outperformed in this regard only by the incredible Apo-Summicron-M 35 mm Asph. But it is not true that the Summarits' rectangular E39 hood could have been better for the Summarit-M 50 mm. In fact, it fits both the 35 mm 1:2.5 and 50 mm 1:2.5 equally well due to the different entry pupil positions. The 35 mm's entry pupil sits very closely behind the front element whereas the 50 mm's is positioned significantly deeper inside the lens. So the same hood effectively is longer for the 50 mm than for the 35 mm.

The particularly strong point of the Summarit-M 50 mm, compared to the (current) Summicron-M 50 mm, is the bokeh of the close background. The transition between the sharp area and the beginning of the blurred background is very nice, very natural, very convincing with the Summarit. This is, in my opinion, reason enough to prefer the Summarit over most other 50 mm lenses. However, the bokeh of the far-away background is neither particularly good nor particularly bad.

[Vanillasludge]

2 hours ago, BradS said:

Yup. I get that.  For my taste, flare is the absolute worst thing a lens can do.  I may be the only person here who feels that way but that's how I feel. Which is why I use the Planar.

Agreed.  Flare more often ruins a shot vs some kind of mystical improvement.   If you shoot film it’s an even bigger drag to find out your lens has hosed up your results.   

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[Big Jim]

Thanks to all the feedback received I’ve decided to go for a used Summicron 50mm F2 V4.

 
There’s one for sale locally which I inspected yesterday and wanted to check if some very slight play of the aperture ring is normal ? Like a small click if you try and wobble it. I believe it was also possible to move the selected aperture very slightly before the F2 mark. All normal ? 

Edited January 26 by Big Jim

[lct]

Very slightly yes.

Edited January 26 by lct