Back button AF

[kenf]

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I was surprised when I learned the Q2 doesn’t support BBF, but it wasn’t a factor in my decision to buy a Q2M - I’m most likely to leave it in manual focus the majority of the time anyways. I do wish the back button could be made momentary, because as of this moment I’m using it as AE-L but would prefer it not be latching.  I can live with it as is.

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[bobtodrick]

What...my Q has autofocus 😁

I haven't taken it off M/F since I purchased it three years ago.

[jonoslack]

On 9/22/2022 at 7:50 AM, mikelevitt said:

In this case, I think they need to have at least an option to implement BBAF the way that the rest of the camera world - Canon, Nikon, Fuji, and others do.  A press of the back button instantly focuses the lens, which stays where you leave it no matter how many times you press the shutter, until you push the back button again.  The current system with the AF-L that holds for one push of the shutter is silly.

I probably shouldn't re-open this discussion, but this does work on the Q3 43 (and presumably also the Q3)  if you set one of the back buttons to AF-L (a first press focuses and then locks the focus, which stays locked until you press it again)

[Kim Dahl]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

I probably shouldn't re-open this discussion, but this does work on the Q3 43 (and presumably also the Q3)  if you set one of the back buttons to AF-L (a first press focuses and then locks the focus, which stays locked until you press it again)

It's probably the same on Q3.

You can take as many pictures on C with AF-L.

But when you release the focus button and press down again to take a new photo, the Q3 focuses again with the shutter button.

I don't think I can disconnect the focus entirely on the focus button ?

I don't use it, I prefer to focus with the focus button - hold it half way down to lock focus and take photo. And then repeat.

[Dr. G]

33 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said:

It's probably the same on Q3.

You can take as many pictures on C with AF-L.

But when you release the focus button and press down again to take a new photo, the Q3 focuses again with the shutter button.

I don't think I can disconnect the focus entirely on the focus button ?

I don't use it, I prefer to focus with the focus button - hold it half way down to lock focus and take photo. And then repeat.

It would be nice to have it not re-acquire focus upon half press when using a back button for stitching purposes.

[NicholasT]

20 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I probably shouldn't re-open this discussion, but this does work on the Q3 43 (and presumably also the Q3)  if you set one of the back buttons to AF-L (a first press focuses and then locks the focus, which stays locked until you press it again)

Hi Jono,

Thanks for your excellent and balanced reviews.

I do not believe that the current implementation of AF-L satisfies the use case of most BBF users.

Personally I consider this issue the single greatest downside to my enjoyment of using the Q3 as it forces me to change the focusing process I use with all other cameras including the SL line.

Below is a copy of the comment that I posted a short while ago on your Leica Q3 43 review thread:

The short answer is that Leica should listen to its loyal customers and implement proper BBF functionality on the Q3 and Q3 43.

While there clearly are users who do not wish to use BBF, its use is sufficiently widespread that having the “option” to setup the camera to properly enable this functionality, falls in the category of a “no brainier”.

Also IMHO there is no downside to those who do not wish to use BBF, as they can continue to use the default shutter half press to their hearts content.

Hard to believe we are even having this conversation in late 2024!

Edited October 8, 2024 by NicholasT

[LocalHero1953]

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Reading the other thread (Jono's review of the Q3 43) there appear to be unexplained differences in experience. For some people, AF-L only works until the next shutter press (i.e. shot). For others (including me with the Q2) AF-L works through subsequent shutter presses, and is only released by pressing the Zoom/Lock button again.

It's this difference in experience that is the puzzle. Caused by other settings? Caused by slight hardware differences?

I don't think anyone is arguing that back button focus that remains fixed till deliberately released should not be implemented.

Edited October 8, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[NicholasT]

At least from my personal perspective the entire AF-L discussion misses the point.

As a dedicated BBF user the solution I'm seeking is not tweaking the AF-L with back button working for multiple captures versus single capture.

What I really would like is to be allowed to optionally configure back button focus and completely defeat the use of half button press.

As a dedicated user of BBF I never want to use half shutter press.

If Leica wants to preserve the AF-L option in conjunction with using half button press, no problem, just create a separate dedicated option to allow for back button focusing while completely eliminating half shutter press for focusing.

To further clarify I’m perfectly fine with SL implementation because having BBF with simultaneous Manual Focus option is truly having the best of both worlds.

I see absolutely no reason why this added option cannot be offered in a firmware upgrade.

Based on the broad and longstanding use of back button focus this should be a "default" option in all Leica autofocus cameras.

I'm advocating that Leica save us all from these silly AF-L posts which are nothing more than attempts at a workaround and just implement proper BBF functionality once and for all. 

End of rant!

Edited October 8, 2024 by NicholasT

[LocalHero1953]

57 minutes ago, NicholasT said:

At least from my personal perspective the entire AF-L discussion misses the point.

As a dedicated BBF user the solution I'm seeking is not tweaking the AF-L with back button working for multiple captures versus single capture.

What I really would like is to be allowed to optionally configure back button focus and completely defeat the use of half button press.

As a dedicated user of BBF I never want to use half shutter press.

If Leica wants to preserve the AF-L option in conjunction with using half button press, no problem, just create a separate dedicated option to allow for back button focusing while completely eliminating half shutter press for focusing.

To further clarify I’m perfectly fine with SL implementation because having BBF with simultaneous Manual Focus option is truly having the best of both worlds.

I see absolutely no reason why this added option cannot be offered in a firmware upgrade.

Based on the broad and longstanding use of back button focus this should be a "default" option in all Leica autofocus cameras.

I'm advocating that Leica save us all from these silly AF-L posts which are nothing more than attempts at a workaround and just implement proper BBF functionality once and for all. 

End of rant!

Please re-read my post before ranting about 'silly AF-L posts'. With AF-L I don't need or use half-press on the shutter button. The Zoom/Lock button sets the focus. The shutter button has no effect on use of AF-L - for me with the Q2, and for some others with the Q3. If you see a difference between this and your preferred implementation of BBF, please explain it.

As far as I'm concerned, I have BBF as I have it on the SL2-S. Others appear to as well. The mystery is why others, like you, do not.

Edited October 8, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[NicholasT]

34 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Please re-read my post before ranting about 'silly AF-L posts'. With AF-L I don't need or use half-press on the shutter button. The Zoom/Lock button sets the focus. The shutter button has no effect on use of AF-L - for me with the Q2, and for some others with the Q3. If you see a difference between this and your preferred implementation of BBF, please explain it.

As far as I'm concerned, I have BBF as I have it on the SL2-S. Others appear to as well. The mystery is why others, like you, do not.

Apologies for the "silly AF-L" comment. It was inappropriate and unnecessary. 

What I intended to say is that the focus on the AF-L settings is one that causes us to avoid discussing the ultimate solution which is having Leica simply implement proper back button focus which implies enabling a back button focus while simultaneously defeating the shutter half press for focus. For those of us who use BBF exclusively, we don't need and don't want to retain the half shutter button press focusing functionality.

Regarding the fact that with the Q2 you have BBF functionality, I am perfectly aware as I also had it when I had my Q2. Unfortunately as has been widely reported on the forum Leica for some unexplained reason removed that functionality in the Q3 and therefore we are not able to use the function as we did with Q2 or SL2 / SL2s for that matter.

Hope this clarifies the issue and re focuses our discussion and hopefully Leica product management (if they read these posts) on providing this functionality in an upcoming firmware release. Also hopefully once they do so, they can resist removing it in a subsequent firmware release!

Edited October 8, 2024 by NicholasT

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, NicholasT said:

Apologies for the "silly AF-L" comment. It was inappropriate and unnecessary. 

What I intended to say is that the focus on the AF-L settings is one that causes us to avoid discussing the ultimate solution which is having Leica simply implement proper back button focus which implies enabling a back button focus while simultaneously defeating the shutter half press for focus. For those of us who use BBF exclusively, we don't need and don't want to retain the half shutter button press focusing functionality.

Regarding the fact that with the Q2 you have BBF functionality, I am perfectly aware as I also had it when I had my Q2. Unfortunately as has been widely reported on the forum Leica for some unexplained reason removed that functionality in the Q3 and therefore we are not able to use the function as we did with Q2 or SL2 / SL2s for that matter.

Hope this clarifies the issue and re focuses our discussion and hopefully Leica product management (if they read these posts) on providing this functionality in an upcoming firmware release. Also hopefully once they do so, they can resist removing it in a subsequent firmware release!

Thank you for your initial comment.

With respect to the Q2, I only gave my experience because it matches the experience of some others with the Q3. And others stated that the BBF functionality was only available in the Q(1), and withdrawn in the Q2 🤷‍♂️. There remains this inconsistency of experience between different users of the same camera.

I have no interest in half-press-and-manual-focus either - I find it clunky and prone to inadvertent shutter release. 

Edited October 8, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[mikelevitt]

On 10/7/2024 at 7:33 AM, jonoslack said:

I probably shouldn't re-open this discussion, but this does work on the Q3 43 (and presumably also the Q3)  if you set one of the back buttons to AF-L (a first press focuses and then locks the focus, which stays locked until you press it again)

I think that's the same as the Q2.  When you push again, does it focus again, or just unlock?  If you keep your finger on the button, does it continue to focus until you lift off the button?  If it works like the other cameras, that might be a reason to get a Q3 - though it would be nice if Leica would just update the Q2 firmware...

[mikelevitt]

On 4/4/2021 at 5:11 AM, jaapv said:

All cameras have different ways of operating - those are design choices. Either the photographer learns to use the camera in the manner intended (or finds workarounds ) or he/she moves on to a tool that fits his/her needs better.

In this case, the design choice, different than every other camera including the S system, SUCKS, and makes the camera unusable for me, and most other professionals who prefer to control how and when their AF works.  There is no possible defense for Leica's bad choice here...

[LocalHero1953]

3 hours ago, mikelevitt said:

In this case, the design choice, different than every other camera including the S system, SUCKS, and makes the camera unusable for me, and most other professionals who prefer to control how and when their AF works.  There is no possible defense for Leica's bad choice here...

One defence is that it wasn't designed for professionals - it's a fixed lens P&S, though sophisticated.
Another defence is that it is selling faster than they can make them. 

[SrMi]

5 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

One defence is that it wasn't designed for professionals - it's a fixed lens P&S, though sophisticated.
Another defence is that it is selling faster than they can make them. 

It is the same problem with the SL series: BBF works only in MF mode; you cannot disable AF from the shutter button. This leads to BBF is not possible if the AF is physically disengaged, like in Q cameras or Panasonic lenses with clutch. Luckily for the SL series, only a few lenses have an AF/MF clutch.

BTW, I certainly feel that the Q was also designed for professionals.

[keithlaban.co.uk]

Whilst the lack of of true back button focus wasn't a deal breaker for this tog it sure makes my life difficult, particularly as I use multiple platforms that do have BBF.

Photographers are or aren't professionals, cameras nah...

[Smogg]

Q was developed for profit and quite successfully, but only M has a soul. If a mass product like Q is needed for M to exist, then I have nothing against it.