nuc001 Posted February 12, 2021 Share #1 Posted February 12, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everyone. Following up on my M10-P Rangefinder drifting thread, where I asked whether the body was front focusing or not, I went to Leica in Thailand and even though the camera is still within it's warranty, they told me that they cannot solve focusing issues and the camera has to be sent to Singapore. As my camera was bought from HK, I will have to pay P&P of 250USD as well, and it will take around 2-3 months. I also would have to go find the receipt, as they cannot just look at the serial number for some reason. If I am unable to supply the receipt, then a maintenance fee will be charged as well. Yesterday I had some free time and was itching to get the problem sorted, so I researched this forum about DIY rangefinder adjustments and a few YouTube videos, went out and bought a 2mm Hex key for $1 and adjusted the roller for horizontal alignment myself, using the night stars as a guide for infinity. However, my vertical alignment is also off so there are always 2 stars in the focusing patch no matter what I do, making adjustment very difficult. At the end of all that, the rangefinder does not coincide at infinity, but focus from 0.7m - 5m seems to be accurate (still slightly front focusing but acceptable) for Summilux-M 50mm at F1.4. I have a few questions regarding the adjustments. Horizontal adjustment (please kindly see attached photo from the internet, of an M7?) When the hex key is inserted into the hole, and clockwise turns (red arrow) are very easy and the rangefinder arm does not move at all. However, when I try to turn anti-clockwise (green arrow) the rangefinder arm pivots down into the body with the turn, so I had to do a lifting motion whilst also turning the hex key. This lifted the rangefinder arm further out of the body once, but it then moved back so I am not sure whether this will cause any problems in the long term. I made sure not to press the rangefinder arm in the direction of the top plate and it looks the same as far as I can tell. Hopefully I didn't bend it? Vertical adjustment Apparently this can also be done with the 2mm hex key. However, I have no idea how to unscrew the cover screw on the camera without scratching it. Some have suggested wrapping a screwdriver in electrical tape first, but I am hesitating to attempt it. Has anyone else managed to removed the screw, and how did you do it? Any help would be much appreciated. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317918-need-some-help-with-m10-p-rangefinder-adjustment/?do=findComment&comment=4138966'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 Hi nuc001, Take a look here Need some help with M10-P Rangefinder Adjustment.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Gelatino Posted February 12, 2021 Share #2 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) As it is glued, one drop of aceton on the edge of the red dot, wait few seconds, turn it gently with a cork or two toothpicks clock/anti clockwise and remove it. Edited February 12, 2021 by Gelatino Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuc001 Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share #3 Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Gelatino said: As it is glued, one drop of aceton on the edge of the red dot, wait few seconds, turn it gently with a cork or two toothpicks clock/anti clockwise and remove it. Mine has no dot I'm afraid....just a painted screw with a very thin indent. So afraid that it will slip and scratch. It is screwed on though so no glue I don't think on the P models... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted February 12, 2021 Share #4 Posted February 12, 2021 I've adjusted my rangefinders countless times on various models, but never a contemporary one with the large flat screw. I've done M2,3 & 4s with the small screw and had no problems. I'll admit, removing the black screw on my M10M would make me sweat a bit, but so does removing the red dot on the M10! The only thing I would suggest is to take the camera to the hardware store (if you can) and buy a very high quality screw driver that fits properly. You can protect the camera body with tape and if you bugger the screw, I suppose you can order a replacement. Vertical enlightenment can be a bit frustrating as it is totally trial and error. The screw that you are turning is actually a cam, so there is no hard rule as to which direction to turn it. All depends on which side of the "ramp" you are on. Sometimes I get lucky and get it right quickly, other times it takes a while. But well worth the effort. Proper vertical adjustment allows for focusing the image rather than always looking for vertical elements. I can focus on eyes by focusing on catchlights, tree bark etc by superimposing the texture until the image gets clear, not possible with the vertical out of alignment. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budjames Posted February 14, 2021 Share #5 Posted February 14, 2021 On 2/11/2021 at 9:53 PM, nuc001 said: Hi everyone. Following up on my M10-P Rangefinder drifting thread, where I asked whether the body was front focusing or not, I went to Leica in Thailand and even though the camera is still within it's warranty, they told me that they cannot solve focusing issues and the camera has to be sent to Singapore. As my camera was bought from HK, I will have to pay P&P of 250USD as well, and it will take around 2-3 months. I also would have to go find the receipt, as they cannot just look at the serial number for some reason. If I am unable to supply the receipt, then a maintenance fee will be charged as well. Yesterday I had some free time and was itching to get the problem sorted, so I researched this forum about DIY rangefinder adjustments and a few YouTube videos, went out and bought a 2mm Hex key for $1 and adjusted the roller for horizontal alignment myself, using the night stars as a guide for infinity. However, my vertical alignment is also off so there are always 2 stars in the focusing patch no matter what I do, making adjustment very difficult. At the end of all that, the rangefinder does not coincide at infinity, but focus from 0.7m - 5m seems to be accurate (still slightly front focusing but acceptable) for Summilux-M 50mm at F1.4. I have a few questions regarding the adjustments. Horizontal adjustment (please kindly see attached photo from the internet, of an M7?) When the hex key is inserted into the hole, and clockwise turns (red arrow) are very easy and the rangefinder arm does not move at all. However, when I try to turn anti-clockwise (green arrow) the rangefinder arm pivots down into the body with the turn, so I had to do a lifting motion whilst also turning the hex key. This lifted the rangefinder arm further out of the body once, but it then moved back so I am not sure whether this will cause any problems in the long term. I made sure not to press the rangefinder arm in the direction of the top plate and it looks the same as far as I can tell. Hopefully I didn't bend it? Vertical adjustment Apparently this can also be done with the 2mm hex key. However, I have no idea how to unscrew the cover screw on the camera without scratching it. Some have suggested wrapping a screwdriver in electrical tape first, but I am hesitating to attempt it. Has anyone else managed to removed the screw, and how did you do it? Any help would be much appreciated. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I think that is is a job for an experience Leica technician. I would never attempt this on my own. Regards, Bud James Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 14, 2021 Share #6 Posted February 14, 2021 Nor I and I would send it to Wetzlar. Normally, though, warranty issues and shipping should be handled through the dealer for free. I advise you to contact Customer Support in Wetzlar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuc001 Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted February 16, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 2/12/2021 at 9:48 PM, Rob L said: I've adjusted my rangefinders countless times on various models, but never a contemporary one with the large flat screw. I've done M2,3 & 4s with the small screw and had no problems. I'll admit, removing the black screw on my M10M would make me sweat a bit, but so does removing the red dot on the M10! The only thing I would suggest is to take the camera to the hardware store (if you can) and buy a very high quality screw driver that fits properly. You can protect the camera body with tape and if you bugger the screw, I suppose you can order a replacement. Vertical enlightenment can be a bit frustrating as it is totally trial and error. The screw that you are turning is actually a cam, so there is no hard rule as to which direction to turn it. All depends on which side of the "ramp" you are on. Sometimes I get lucky and get it right quickly, other times it takes a while. But well worth the effort. Proper vertical adjustment allows for focusing the image rather than always looking for vertical elements. I can focus on eyes by focusing on catchlights, tree bark etc by superimposing the texture until the image gets clear, not possible with the vertical out of alignment. I decided to only adjust the horizontal to get a feel of what's up, but the next day it it was off again, so probably some thing loose in the camera. I did not attempt the vertical due to the screw but yes, it has been bothering me for a while. Not only that focusing on the contrast pop in the rangefinder window didn't work, 1 horizontal line becomes 2 distinct ones and my eyes hurt 😆 On 2/14/2021 at 8:54 PM, budjames said: I think that is is a job for an experience Leica technician. I would never attempt this on my own. Regards, Bud James Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto On 2/15/2021 at 2:25 AM, jaapv said: Nor I and I would send it to Wetzlar. Normally, though, warranty issues and shipping should be handled through the dealer for free. I advise you to contact Customer Support in Wetzlar. I've since sent the camera in, not to Wetzlar, but to a highly recommended camera shop here in Thailand, where my acquaintances have sent their Noctilux F1, 35 AA, M10s etc. in to fix focusing issues, for a full CLA. Will see how it goes when I get the camera back next month. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maarten Posted February 16, 2021 Share #8 Posted February 16, 2021 Keep us informed on the progress. Good luck, will keep my fingers crossed for you! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 16, 2021 Share #9 Posted February 16, 2021 On 2/14/2021 at 1:25 PM, jaapv said: Nor I and I would send it to Wetzlar. Normally, though, warranty issues and shipping should be handled through the dealer for free. I advise you to contact Customer Support in Wetzlar. Don Goldberg (DAG Camera Parts) does this routinely and is likely much faster than Wetzlar or New Jersey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 16, 2021 Share #10 Posted February 16, 2021 Yes, but I don't think that he accepts Leica guaranty claims... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good To Be Retired Posted February 18, 2021 Share #11 Posted February 18, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 12:17 PM, fotografr said: Don Goldberg (DAG Camera Parts) does this routinely and is likely much faster than Wetzlar or New Jersey. Have you ever had him work on a digital body? I've used him many times for lenses, but I was under the impression he wouldn't touch digital bodies, ever for a non-digital job like focus adjustment. I'd be very pleased to discover I was incorrect though His work is outstanding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 18, 2021 Share #12 Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Good To Be Retired said: Have you ever had him work on a digital body? I've used him many times for lenses, but I was under the impression he wouldn't touch digital bodies, ever for a non-digital job like focus adjustment. I'd be very pleased to discover I was incorrect though His work is outstanding. He has adjusted the rangefinder on my M10-P. He doesn't do work on any of the electronics, but the rangefinder is mechanical so he did that for me. You're right that he does excellent work. I'd suggest you contact him before sending the camera out. Don is a friend, lives nearby, and we've known each other for 30 years. It's possible he was just doing this as a special favor when I was at his shop to pick up a lens he worked on. Edited February 18, 2021 by fotografr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 18, 2021 Share #13 Posted February 18, 2021 Sherry Krauter has said that she will not work on digital M bodies, as the equipment needed to meet tolerances is prohibitively expensive. Don Goldberg seems less prescriptive in this regard. I find it’s always helpful to speak with him in advance to discuss repairs to determine viability, timing, etc. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted February 19, 2021 Share #14 Posted February 19, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 11:21 AM, jaapv said: Yes, but I don't think that he accepts Leica guaranty claims... Too bad Leica only gets vertical alighnment right about 50% of the time! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 19, 2021 Share #15 Posted February 19, 2021 With the cameras I bought it was 100% Perfect out of the box: M3, M4.2, M6, M6TTL, M6, M8,M8,M9, M9, MM1, M240.Cameras wrong out of the box: none. Vertical adjustment twice after dropping an M7 and M8. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted February 20, 2021 Share #16 Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) Maybe their skill level has slipped since M240? I've had - 2 New M6s in 94/95 - both good as far as I knew back then, unused M6 .85 2014 - good, New MP in 2014, vertical off. Needed top plate removal to adjust because M6 style special tool does not fit through the screw hole (terrible design!), New M-P 240 - good, New MD-262 - way off, 2 -New M10s in 2017 - Both off, M10R 2020 off, M10M 2020 - good. 5 good, 5 off. I'm probably pickier than most. Many people focus on vertical elements and never even notice. I have very good luck with gear and don't create these kinds of issues. I have 10 Leica M lenses, none have needed service and all of them have appropriate damping on apertures and focus rings, except my Summarit 50 which focuses very light. My 35 Lux doesn't rattle, my 28 Summicron hasn't fallen apart...All focus accurately and match one another closely on all off my bodies! Edited February 20, 2021 by Rob L Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted February 20, 2021 Share #17 Posted February 20, 2021 If you leave marks on screws, Leica may say you tampered and void warrantee. Later Leicas are different then 2,3,,,4, 6 models and are supposed to be more stable, but harder to set up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted February 20, 2021 Share #18 Posted February 20, 2021 Mine have been totally trouble free once adjusted well! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuc001 Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share #19 Posted February 22, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 10:40 PM, Maarten said: Keep us informed on the progress. Good luck, will keep my fingers crossed for you! Thanks. Will do. Another 20 more days to go... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted February 22, 2021 Share #20 Posted February 22, 2021 Don adjusted the RF on my M9. Since the RFs on digital Ms are very similar to film Ms I would think he will work on that aspect - but not the unique sections of them. Leica did add new equipment for more precise adjustments, but Don’s skill in this area is hard to beat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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