SL2-S buffer is only 50 images in reality

[scott kirkpatrick]

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2 hours ago, syd said:

If I'm shooting DNG, a sequence at 20fps, I keep the finger on the shutter, and after 50 images, it stops firing.

You might have a problem, but it's more likely that you are doing something else that leaves the camera gasping for breath after 50 shots. Do you have AF on and what sort of AF? What shutter speed?

[syd]

20 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

You might have a problem, but it's more likely that you are doing something else that leaves the camera gasping for breath after 50 shots. Do you have AF on and what sort of AF? What shutter speed?

Manual focus. 1/500

Would you agree that if the SL2-S can only shoot 50 DNG that the marketing message is fundamentally misleading?

[scott kirkpatrick]

3 hours ago, syd said:

Manual focus. 1/500

Would you agree that if the SL2-S can only shoot 50 DNG that the marketing message is fundamentally misleading?

no.  I don't read the marketing message, I read the manual.  And the marketing only claims infinite running for jpegs.

[Slender]

Real world AFc burst is 5fps on this camera (6 on sl2). Try shooting countinuously at this rythm and see how long you can go before the camera ACTUALLY prevents you from clikcing the shutter. THAT would be more interesting.

I think whoever goes to leica wanting (let alone expecting) 1DXIII or Sony A1 continous cadencing is in a metaphisical and philosophical dead end. No one outside of dedicated wildlife or sport professionals needs this kind of performance, let alone can enjoy browsing trhough and trashing hundreds of files just to get a single keeper on their computer afterwards.

Whatever happened to fellow photographers, amateurs and pros alike, who used to marvel at the feats accomplished by our predecessors, and felt grateful that nowadays we have tools they couldn't even imagine just a few decades ago, for much cheaper and accessible than ever?
It is so conflicting for me: on one side I am glad people with GAS keep brands like Leica alive with compulsive, baseless buying needs (and asian collectors)... and on the other hand I am also alarmed the same people (or others) come back crying sour tears fueled by frustration in part because tech is advancing very fast with competitors, is a bit immature for mirrorless in general, and mostly because the vast majority of those people are either armchair photographers or hobbyist with too much money misled by fancy-smanshy marketing claims. I myself got seduced when I saw Steve McCurry touting his SL2, but I knew, coming from years shooting M4 and M9 (God knows how flawed this camera was) not to expect the same "perfs numbers" as a Sony in the dark (check back the "stories" on the Leica website, the grain is here they do not hide it, but it is organic and beautiful in my opinion) or Canon AF or ultimate reliability (its a small company, with production repartited on at least 2/3 countries, and most is made by human hands...).

Sorry to express all those rants in one go on a forum I am free to just walk away from, but I am more and more wondering if the bigger threat to the photography industry/business/hobby at large are not the photographers themselves blaming the tech constantly, no matter how great it actually can be beyond marketing exagerations and genuine limitations.

M4 and Elmarit 90 and Ektar100, one of my first assigment on a commercial set when I was in Highschool. 1 fps, manual focus 🤪. Buffer is 36 to 38 frames 🤠

 

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Edited February 2, 2021 by Slender

[syd]

5 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

no.  I don't read the marketing message, I read the manual.  And the marketing only claims infinite running for jpegs.

Where abouts in the manual does it say that DNG is maxed out at 50 images and JPG is unlimited?

[MediaFotografie]

vor einer Stunde schrieb syd:

Where abouts in the manual does it say that DNG is maxed out at 50 images and JPG is unlimited?

the data sheet tells us it could write jpeg AND dng without limits to the SD cards:

 

 

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[syd]

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40 minutes ago, MediaFotografie said:

the data sheet tells us it could write jpeg AND dng without limits to the SD cards...

Technically this is correct. If you shoot at 1 DNG a second. Certainly not at 9 nor 20 fps.

[Mick H]

With all due respect, if you don't care about the buffer capacity, that's OK but I do.  Please respect the OP.  I understand how the OP feels here. 

Interestingly, Panasonic states the S1H will shoot around 60 RAWs until the buffer fills.  My experience is over 100 RAWs and around 80 RAW + JPG.  The customer expectation works out. I have specific use cases for this.  I need to know how deep I can shoot high speed RAWs into fast sporting events, rodeos, fire dancing performances, etc..  5 seconds of coverage at 10 fps is 50 RAWs.  100 RAWs gives me 10 seconds.  This difference is huge to me.  I want to stay in the L mount ecosystem and shoot with my SL 24-90 with the largest buffer possible.  And I want RAWs, not video frame grabs.  In my days of film, I bulk loaded Velvia to shoot 38 frames in re-useable canisters for best value and headroom.  I used an F4s, F5 and M7 with motor drive.   In contrast, my portrait work is one frame at a time in AF-S or MF. 

The SL2-S performance envelope information is important to me.  

 

[beewee]

On 1/28/2021 at 5:29 PM, syd said:

I'm on it - have contacted Leica. But was curious about this compared to the SL2 - where it's apparently limited to 78 DNG per burst. Which is a lot more than the SL2-S in my experience.

Have you heard back Leica about this?

[syd]

1 hour ago, beewee said:

Have you heard back Leica about this?

Still waiting - I've prodded.

[syd]

2 hours ago, Mick H said:

...

The SL2-S performance envelope information is important to me.  

It's important to me too. If I had known about the 50 DNG buffer, I would not have gone ahead. I may still return the body depending on what Leica rep says.

[oka]

This issues seems to be something which could be resolved with firmware update.

I was also bit stunned that there were such disparity between the materials Leica provided.

With higher buffer, you could make few second "video clips" from the RAW files (with 25fps).

[Succisa75]

The SL2 is notoriously bad at buffering images. The SL2-S is slightly better but no where even close to cameras a few years old. 
 The buffering issue was brought up at launch of the SL2 and Leica just said, it may be the SD card your using. I was using the Sony Tough UHS II V90 300MB card.

SL2 and -S are meant for still photography and slight movement. It can catch some action but not at the advertised speeds. Especially when you can only do 6fps In AFC. 
 

if you want to use Leica glass and want better buffering and AFc speeds. then go with the Lumix options. The S1 and S1R also have CF express slots and you won’t face any issues with them. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Succisa75

[beewee]

I just tested the SL2-S in high speed burst (second fastest mode) with a V90 card and got over 120 shots continuous before the buffer filled up and it then slowed to about 1 shot per second.

[frame-it]

45 minutes ago, beewee said:

I just tested the SL2-S in high speed burst (second fastest mode) with a V90 card and got over 120 shots continuous before the buffer filled up and it then slowed to about 1 shot per second.

120 dng's ? Nice!

[beewee]

15 minutes ago, frame-it said:

120 dng's ? Nice!

Yeah. It’s a Kingston Canvas React 256 GB card.

However, I did notice that at the highest speed burst mode, the camera will take 50 shots and seems to stop shooting when I held down the shutter. Occasionally, the buffer will flip between a blank field and ‘0’ but it will not take more photos. That to me feels like a bug.

[syd]

14 minutes ago, beewee said:

... at the highest speed burst mode, the camera will take 50 shots and seems to stop shooting when I held down the shutter...

This is what I see. 

It's a 50 DNG hard limit. And takes a long time to clear, even with a V90 card.

[Slender]

53 minutes ago, beewee said:

Yeah. It’s a Kingston Canvas React 256 GB card.

Excellent cards indeed, can't beat the performance, quality and value for this range. I love mine (128gb) a lot! The included reader is fast as hell, too.

[beewee]

22 hours ago, beewee said:

However, I did notice that at the highest speed burst mode, the camera will take 50 shots and seems to stop shooting when I held down the shutter. Occasionally, the buffer will flip between a blank field and ‘0’ but it will not take more photos. That to me feels like a bug.

I’m pretty sure I discovered a FW bug on the SL2-S.

I repeated the test where I held the shutter button down fully at the highest speed burst mode and it ran the buffer from 51 shots down to 0. If I keep holding the shutter down, the buffer count flickers between blank [  ] and 0 even after 10+ seconds. In this state, the camera will not take any more photos. However, if I lift the shutter button to the first position (i.e. AE lock), the buffer count will actually go count up from 0 as the images are written to the SD card which is about 1.5 images per second with a V90 card.

This means that after filling the buffer in the highest speed burst mode, the camera for some reason is unable to clear the buffer and write images to the SD card until you let go of the shutter button.

Edited February 13, 2021 by beewee

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[syd]

@beewee this is what I posted in my original post. The difference with the other sequential shooting modes is this is with the electronic shutter only, and for some reason, Leica has decided that at 25fps the buffer does not simultaneously the buffer (once it's full) and allow you to shoot. This is different to when using the mechanical shutter where simultaneous or concurrent operation of taking photos and clearing the buffer to the card occurs.

Whether it's a bug or a engineering decision, who's to know? For me, it's disappointing more so because it's not disclosed anywhere in the specifications.