The original SL in 2021 (VS SL2-S)

[uranage]

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Someone offered me a used SL1 for quite reasonable price after switching to the SL2, so I thought I'd ask you how dated it really is in 2021? It is kind of old and digital cameras don't age that well. Then again it was ahead of its time back in 2014. The EVF I suppose is still fine compared to newer cameras and the sensor has the same amount of megapixels as the new SL2-S. It doesn't have IBIS but then again the two zooms both have OIS. 

I guess I want to know if it feels really dated and old like for example the A7R2 is today. Like there are things that aren't obvious just by looking at the spec sheet. 

But surely the SL2-S is worth the extra money even though they are both 24mp?

[Donzo98]

26 minutes ago, uranage said:

Someone offered me a used SL1 for quite reasonable price after switching to the SL2, so I thought I'd ask you how dated it really is in 2021? It is kind of old and digital cameras don't age that well. Then again it was ahead of its time back in 2014. The EVF I suppose is still fine compared to newer cameras and the sensor has the same amount of megapixels as the new SL2-S. It doesn't have IBIS but then again the two zooms both have OIS. 

I guess I want to know if it feels really dated and old like for example the A7R2 is today. Like there are things that aren't obvious just by looking at the spec sheet. 

But surely the SL2-S is worth the extra money even though they are both 24mp?

Worth it to you mY not be the same thing as worth it to me. 

How much is it?? 1800-2000 USD for a MINT one is a bargain. It’s 4895 for a new SL2-S. 

[chasdfg]

In terms of the body, button layout and menus, i wouldn't say the SL is dated camera -> the body is unique and quite an art piece in itself I must say. The button layout is smart and not replicated in any other camera but the Leica S series, the S3 being "current". The menus are relatively modern IMO (i.e. not M9, M240 era). The EVF is still superb. I used it and the SL2 and couldn't tell the difference...but i'm not very discerning. After using an SL, SL2, M10 etc and holding an M240 again, the camera did feel dated (menus, buttons). But I can't say the same of the SL.

The most dated aspects of the camera are the sensor and AF performance, which are rather spec-sheet related. People complain about the SL2 and SL2-S AF not being as good as the latest cameras by Sony, Canon and Nikon. The SL's is even older tech. I didn't use my SL with AF much (it was my EVF-M, and still will be a great EVF-M for many people who don't need high ISO performance and IBIS), but AF-S single point worked fine for me. Depends on what you shoot. 

It has a perfectly capable sensor. People have shot great pictures with that sensor and will continue to do so. When I had it, i did wish it had 1 to 2 stops higher ISO performance (I often tried to keep it below 6400, preferably below ISO 3200). That said, if bad pictures came out of that camera, it was more because of me and how i didn't understand it properly as a tool and what its limits and strengths were. You miss out on some flexibility, but it's not an awful camera to begin with.

I've seen some SLs go for 1800-2000USD and these are not super uncommon (may not be mint, but close to or with minor user marks). That is very good value, especially if you want to give one a try. It gives flexibility to use AF as well as M lenses (excellent M lens compatibility). 

This said..I'd say the SL2-S represents good value too, despite being more than twice the price, presuming you're considering it as opposed to the SL. It has a much better grip and IBIS, which I feel are the biggest perks of the SL2/S cameras because I don't do video. As you'd know, the ISO performance is at least 2 stops better than the SL. From what I've seen, possibly more. That sensor + IBIS -> you can shoot practically in any light. Plus you get warranty too. 

 

 

[AZN]

The SL (typ 601) has built in GPS, which neither the SL2 or SL2-S have. Maybe not a dealbreaker for many, but I find it pretty useful. Also like the fact that the firmware is passed v.3, so most of the irritating bugs have been ironed out.

Edited January 8, 2021 by AZN

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, uranage said:

Someone offered me a used SL1 for quite reasonable price after switching to the SL2, so I thought I'd ask you how dated it really is in 2021? It is kind of old and digital cameras don't age that well. Then again it was ahead of its time back in 2014. The EVF I suppose is still fine compared to newer cameras and the sensor has the same amount of megapixels as the new SL2-S. It doesn't have IBIS but then again the two zooms both have OIS. 

I guess I want to know if it feels really dated and old like for example the A7R2 is today. Like there are things that aren't obvious just by looking at the spec sheet. 

But surely the SL2-S is worth the extra money even though they are both 24mp?

when a new version is released the old version doesn't magically disintegrate via some hidden firmware on a timer..it still works fine and produces lovely images [depending on the photographer of course]

😇

[robert_parker]

I think the key points would be how much you value in camera image stabilisation and whether  you feel you need the higher iso performance that the SL2-S offers; in the case of the SL2 it's more about if you feel you need the extra resolution.

I own the SL Typ 601 (SL1) that I was lucky enough to get from another forum member and I find the viewfinder a joy to use and the image quality and the higher iso quality splendid at reasonable iso levels; also it's a very good entry into the SL system and what it can do.

A lot of the shooting I do is street and people photography after midnight, so under street lighting, and the SL1 performance under these conditions seems excellent, with plenty of useable good quality iso in reserve.

Where someone might tilt towards the SL2-S would be if they wanted to use a range of slower legacy lenses of longer focal length, as the in body stabilisation and increased iso capability then become relevant; I'm shooting night time street at 1.2, 1.4, 2.0, and 2.8 without too many problems or sacrifice of shutter speed, handheld, in most conditions.

The other place where I know another forum member prefers the SL2-S is for small aperture close up nature photography in woodland, where high iso performance again becomes relevant.

I think if you are undecided and the things I've described above aren't excessively relevant, start with the SL1 and see what you think - it should trade in for a good price anyway, so I think you'd have little to loose in the experiment.

Edited January 8, 2021 by robert_parker

[LocalHero1953]

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Under other circumstances I might have held on to my SL instead of selling it for the SL2 (which I then traded for the SL2-S). The biggest difference I noticed in the SL2 was the IBIS. 24mp is still more than adequate for the vast majority of photographers and their abilities (why I ended up with the SL2-S), and the main other difference is an improvement in high ISO performance - but that is not as noticeable a difference, IMO, as in the SL2-S. In your shoes, I would decide entirely on budget. If I could only afford the SL, I would get it and be content with a camera that is still modern. If I could stretch my budget, I would most definitely go for the SL2-S.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Others have listed the drawbacks of the SL compared to the SL2s.  No IBIS, and a very different way of presenting what is almost the same functional organization underneath.  If you prize effortless handling ("in the flow") it might trip you up, but as an only camera it is as good as it always was.  I've had two SLs since 2015 or so, and was planning to sell both to pay for an SL2-S, but I think I'll hang onto one of them, keeping it with the R to L adapter installed, for use with R lenses.  I suspect it will increase a bit in value once the pack of SLs that are sold off in favor of the new flame, the SL2-S, dwindles.  I bought an M-2 back when everyone who cared had moved on to the Nikon F.  It's worth a lot more now.  More than an F. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by scott kirkpatrick

[toyfel]

I find the SL(601) to be the best digital camera I've ever used for shooting outdoors with gloves in freezing cold climates. For the same reason I like its button layout better than the newer layout on the SL2/SL2-S.  

[Mr.Q]

Things that I prefer on the original:
1. 4-button layout 
2. slighter larger EVF (0.8 vs 0.78 magnification)
3. somehow feels better built, as it uses less rubber (all metal grip, metal door for sockets) and flush/non-protuding strap lugs.

I'm honestly not sure how much I benefit from IBIS since I mainly use the 24-90 with OIS and the 50 Summilux wide open.
Or maybe I'm just talking myself into downgrading from the SL2 lol

[lanetomlane]

I've had the original SL since shortly after its launch. Last Autumn I bought the SL2, but didn't sell the SL. I tend to use the SL2 on a tripod for landscape photography where I want to make large prints but for all other needs I still use the SL. In my opinion, the SL is still a fine camera and certainly the results far exceed my expectations. I guess I use both bodies equally, although the SL may have a slight edge.

https://photographybytomlane.com

[farnz]

I had the SL1 from when it was first released, I always enjoyed using it, and I had no plans to move it on since it's such a capable camera.  The SL2 didn't tempt me but the SL2-S did and I part exchanged my SL1 for a SL2-S a few days after it came out.

Why did I swap the SL1 for the SL2-S?  For a number of reasons:

- The BSI (back-side illuminated) sensor that gives around 2 stops better ISO performance, which is very useful for macro photography in dark woods.  I always felt that the SL1 struggled a little here and I was never enamoured with the look of the noise at ISO 3200 and above - it always seemed a bit intrusive and is much less so with the SL2-S (YMMV of course).

- The IBIS (in-body image stabilisation) means that I can use all my M, R, and off-brand lenses a couple of stops slower when street shooting.  I don't have any AF lenses so this is handy.

- The OLED EFV is a notch better again than the SL1's, which was clearly best in class when it was released - it's still right up there with the best too.

- Whilst I got used to the SL1's rear buttons, which were a revelation at the time and provide maximum customisation and flexibility, I found that it took a while to remind myself what customisations I'd set the buttons to if I hadn't used the SL1 for a little while - my fault not the camera's.  The SL2-S has the same button lay out as my M10 so it's more intuitive for me.

- The finger hollows in the SL2-S's grip and it's haptic make the camera feel a little more secure in my hand - I use a Peak Design hand grip that covers the back of the hand and that means I can almost forget about holding the camera.

- If I want to make massive prints from a high-resolution 96 Mpx file I can make use of the Multi-shot function that combines 8 shots into one providing that it's a static scene.

That's my take on the SL2-S and I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with me or feel the same way about it.  But that's the way of the world isn't it. 🙂 

Pete.

[shawn2nd]

Hey Guys, resurrecting this old thread hoping to get some insights here. Yesterday I ordered from my local Leica store a near new condition SL Typ 601 for 1549€ and also a SL2S in very good condition for 2995€. In my research, both of these prices are actually quite good. 🙂 The reason I ordered both was actually a suggestion from my Leica dealer, I have some indecisiveness with the two, so he simply said "Well order both, see what you like, and send the other one back for a refund" so that is exactly what I plan to do. 

I'm not hear to talk specs, I've used many hours of my life in the last weeks beating the specs comparison to death and aligning them with my needs, and to be honest, both will fulfill my needs very well. 

What inputs I would value from the community is actual Leica longevity and what makes more sense. The SL is nearly a decade old at this point, which by digital camera standards is a dinosaur, and I also have slight concerns that as it was the first SL Camera Leica made, maybe some kinks weren't ironed out. Furthermore does the SL still keep up with the firmware updates that are coming out from Leica as well as the SL2 / SL2S? This is stuff that you can't exactly google too easily, nor find in YouTube videos. 

So in 2023, based on the prices, cameras, and concerns about, what do you guys all think? I'm newer to the Leica world, so I can't personally attest to how well a digital Leica holds up over longer periods of time and use. I'd imagine great, but that's an assumption on my part 🙂

Thanks!

[dpitt]

Welcome to the Leica world where dinosaurs are still very much alive. I like to follow the latest developments of Leica at a few years distance and keep on to my best camera's for a very long time. Even my digital bodies now start to increase in value (as long as they keep working) which I consider a big bonus compared to other brands. My oldest ones are my Digilux 2 and R8 + DMR, both released in 2004, still working fine apart from losing the date info each time batteries are changed and difficulties in finding good batteries. The DMR is still delivering 10MP files with 16bit colors with very high quality. Its only this year that I bought my SL1, and it is the first one that can truly replace it.

Look at the 5MP Leica Digilux2 (2004). Look it up if you are not familiar with it. Some people still have it as their only camera, and it has quite a fan club. (search this forum) It has a wonderful lens and I consider it a ISO 100 camera (the same as using ISO 100 film), but it has survived the test of time.

The SL is a much more mature product, so has the potential to at least match that longevity. If you can live with the fact that your camera can die one day, there is no reason you can not enjoy a digital camera like the SL for an other 10 years or so.  Repair will probably not make sense economically, even if it can be done, but you can always buy a replacement. It is so good that people will keep using it for a long time.

[farnz]

I'll echo what dpitt says above. 

I also still have and use two Digilux 2 cameras from 2004 and a M8 from 2006 and both still 'bring home the bacon' in different ways.  The shutter failed on my M8 four or five years ago but Leica was still able to replace the shutter with an original 1/8000th M8 shutter and the camera continues to work today.  One of my Digilux 2's suffered sensor failure after a few years - it was a known and widely recorded failure of that particular early Sony sensor - and Leica replaced my, and everyone else's, failed Sony sensors free of charge.  (Leica's replacement program has ended now because the sensor is unavailable from Sony.)

Leica M9's had a widespread problem of sensor corrosion in the Kodak KAF18500 sensors and Leica replaced them foc for a long time until Kodak's couldn't supply anymore sensors.

So in my opinion Leica digital cameras do have longevity when compared with other major brands who have been known to disown any problems as you walk through the shop doorway (unless of course you sign up to an expensive Professional support contract).  Will your SL601 or SL2-S last a long time?  None of us can see into the future of course but in my experience they very likely will last a long time, and even if a problem does crop up you can see from my experience that Leica is likely to help.  And I think you can't say fairer than that these days.

Pete.

[BernardC]

3 hours ago, shawn2nd said:

The SL is nearly a decade old at this point, which by digital camera standards is a dinosaur, and I also have slight concerns that as it was the first SL Camera Leica made, maybe some kinks weren't ironed out. Furthermore does the SL still keep up with the firmware updates that are coming out from Leica as well as the SL2 / SL2S?

The original SL has been faultless in my experience. It's been even better than some other cameras with "bulletproof" reputations, like the Canon 5Dii that I used before. I wouldn't have too many concerns for the future.

Leica released a firmware update earlier this year. I don't know what the future holds, but I'm sure that any bugs have been resolved by now, so the only new features are support for additional lenses, and slight updates to colour profiles (one recent update aligned the video L-log profile with the SL2 and SL2-S).

[Olaf_ZG]

I sold my SL for the SL2-s, only reason was that I wanted to have the higher ISO, as I sometimes would like to have 1/1000 in darker places w/o flash (horse stables), and the possibility to switch off LENR although that didn’t improve the images…

So both are great, based on your needs.

[Kreeshp]

6 hours ago, shawn2nd said:

What inputs I would value from the community is actual Leica longevity and what makes more sense.

In 2023, what makes more sense to me is the SL2-S.  If you can afford it, the premium you pay for better low light performance (higher usable ISO) and IBIS is worth it.  (As an SL2-S user, I'm biased though.)

Edited October 10, 2023 by Kreeshp
spelling

[DadDadDaddyo]

I have a special appreciation for the SL (601). 

Its minimalist, almost brutalist, physical design stands out to me: I, who adamantly eschew fascination with the physical or visual design of a camera body. It's a tool, an implement, not a fashion accessory, doggone it!

But the 601 really broke ground. Once you're tuned into its ergonomics, even the SL2 seems squishy and watered-down.

The 601 achieved a directness of physical connection to the user unseen outside of the M series itself, yet without simply copying the M design. It's absolutely a pure case of form following function. 

Also: I continue to miss the onboard GPS. The current approach using synchronization with your phone seems Byzantine by comparison. 

Paired with the deservedly legendary 24-90 SL (a true 'bag of primes', and blessed with Image Stabilization), you have a powerhouse picture making solution that's durable, hearty, and stalwart! It could truly be all one might ever need. Truly.

That said, I parted ways with my SL 601 to help pave the way toward on or another of my Monochroms, along with a whole bunch of other gear that had increasingly been relegated to occasional use at most.

Of all those items, it's the 601 I most wish I'd hung on to. It was such a stand-out in design and implementation, I can't help but feel it will come to be regarded as one of the classics. 

But the SL2 I kept does, in fact, surpass its performance in every way that counts to me. 

Beware the fascination with a camera's appearance! It's a shovel, a pickaxe. Use it. Don't preen with it!

(.... but, uh, between you and me... I have ask... um, does this camera make me look fat?....)

Edited October 10, 2023 by DadDadDaddyo

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[shawn2nd]

Amazing inputs, thanks all 🙂 I'll et you know what I end up keeping