Is there something wrong with my Elmarit-M 90mm?

[tedd]

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Hi team,

Based on numerous suggestions for a 90mm I settled on the modern Elmarit-M six or so months back. When it works I love this lens, it has great contrast and plenty of pop. That said, most of the time, it doesn't work. I just took the below photos then by first shooting the Subaru (sun was directly above it) at f5.6 with the lens hood fully extended. I then turned 90 degrees (sun to the left) and shot the rubbish bin, another 90 and focused on that middle pot plant (sun directly behind me) and another 90 at the bench (sun to the right). Focus was confirmed with live view and I get the same issues on my SL as I do my M240. This does not happen with any other lenses that I own. Metered in multi-mode with a -0.3 EV. Shot RAW and converted to jpeg in Lightroom with no editing. 

Does this lens just flare like crazy, am I doing something wrong or do I have a bad copy? It's driving me nuts!

Thanks.

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[nicci78]

You suffer of a lack of contrast due to the sun. It is not flare. 

Try a proper lens hood. Leica built in hood are almost useless in case of really sunny days. You can also use your hand to extend the shade of the hood. 
 

Or try an excellent multi coated UV filter. Modern filter may have better coatings than this old Elmarit 

Or try to change you position to avoid the problem. 
 

Or try a polarizing filter. Which is hard to use on M cameras. 

NB : you can have the same issue with a brand new Summicron-M 50mm. Its hood is also too short to be really useful  

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by nicci78

[tedd]

Thanks for the response! I actually do have a B+W MRC on there, forgot to point that out. My other lenses are 20mm Nikkor 3.5 (1970's), 28mm Elmarit-M v4 (1990's), 50mm Summicron-M v5 (1990's), 50mm Summilux-R (1970's) and 180mm Elmar-R (1970's) and none of those lose contrast anything like this, so I assumed it was a problem with the lens rather than the age/coatings. It was 6PM (18:00) here in Aus when I took the photo, so not super bright by any means and the sun was going down (golden hour). 

If this is just how they are I may re-evaluate my choice..

[wda]

Try some shots indoors, of pets if you have one, or still-lifes. When outdoors, I frequently use a hand, not always mine, to shade direct sunlight falling on the lens. Any lens. A lens hood is always a bit of a compromise. 

[Cobram]

Dear Tedd,

I used to own Elmarit 90 and sold it due to flare problems and long focus throw. I was not able to take photos of my kids cause I was too slow to focus properly and there was always sun somewhere 🙂  Chasing my kids I always forgot where the sun is...

Somewhere I read Summarit shall be better regarding flare issues, but I don't own it, so can not share any info.

 

 

[pgk]

Whilst the Elmarit-M can flare, I would not expect it to do so as badly as you are showing - from the photos you posted it looks to me as if there is something may be causing significant internal reflection inside your lens. I have owned several of these lenses and currently own two. One has severe coating damage which results in whites bleeding (glowing) into darker adjacent areas. Even so it does not flare as badly as you show. First thing I would do is to get a small white led torch and shine it through the lens and look for any brighter area on the internal 'barrel' - it should be well blacked internally but if some blacking or a baffle is missing and there is a shiny or light area then this could account for such reflection. A good hood is helpful though, regardless. Heliopan make some E46 screw in hoods which should do the trick.

[lct]

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2 hours ago, tedd said:

Thanks for the response! I actually do have a B+W MRC on there, forgot to point that out.

Contrary to what i read here and there, a filter cannot reduce flare, in my modest experience, it can only add a bit or a lot of it, especially when shooting into the light. If your Elmarit 90/2.8 is a version 2 it is not a flare prone lens in my experience, less so than its predecessor the "thin" Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8. Now many Leica lenses don't like the sun when it is just outside the frame. I have not my 90/2.8 v2 with me and i don't remember if it falls in that category sorry.

[pgk]

9 minutes ago, lct said:

Now many Leica lenses don't like the sun when it is just outside the frame. I have not my 90/2.8 v2 with me and i don't remember if it falls in that category sorry.

I would not say that mine does - the 'thin' Tele-Elmarit most certainly does though, and if the OP hadn't specifically stated that the lens in question was an Elmarit-M, I would have thought that the photos were from a 'thin' Tele-Elmarit.

[jankap]

vor einer Stunde schrieb pgk:

Whilst the Elmarit-M can flare, I would not expect it to do so as badly as you are showing - from the photos you posted it looks to me as if there is something may be causing significant internal reflection inside your lens. I have owned several of these lenses and currently own two. One has severe coating damage which results in whites bleeding (glowing) into darker adjacent areas. Even so it does not flare as badly as you show. First thing I would do is to get a small white led torch and shine it through the lens and look for any brighter area on the internal 'barrel' - it should be well blacked internally but if some blacking or a baffle is missing and there is a shiny or light area then this could account for such reflection. A good hood is helpful though, regardless. Heliopan make some E46 screw in hoods which should do the trick.

+1. I also think, there is something wrong with the lens.

[UliWer]

The "foggy" patch in the center of the frame is the result of interior reflection in the lenses shaft. It may be caused by light being reflected by the sensor and then "bouncing" around uncontrolled in the optical system. Usually the 90mm Elmarit is not known as a lens type which suffers too much from the issue (the 50 and 75mm Summicron show it much more often).

You should look in the interior of the lens from the backside, perhaps with the help of a torch light, so you might see something which causes the reflection. Perhaps it helps to cover this reflecting part - which may be very small. If you cannot find any reason you might ask Leica Cusomer Care whether they can do something. For sure it is not normal. 

[pippy]

Strange it is such a constant. Might it be haze?

Philip.

[pgk]

28 minutes ago, pippy said:

Strange it is such a constant. Might it be haze?

Philip.

Very unlikely - it looks very much like the flare that the 'thin' Tele-Elmarit is well known for and this is certainly not due to haze (I have a tatty one which is optically clear and it flares just like this).

[otto.f]

I doubt whether flare can be the cause of such a general fog over the whole image like in the image of the Subaru. Indeed there are some lenses with internal reflections stemming from the messing mount at the back of the lens, but that has a partial effect on the image. I would send it to Wetzlar. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by otto.f

[jaapv]

i used to have this lens. Despite not being immune to flare in standard situations, it hardly ever, if at all, produced veiling flare like this - send it in for a CLA.

[lct]

Just retrieved my 90/2.8 v2. Test pics with and w/o cupping my hand around the lens. Halogen lamp above the frame, hood extended. Flare seems indeed the culprit. 

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[lct]

If it is any consolation (?), none of my following Leica M lenses do significantly better on that same test: 90/4, 90/4 macro, 90/2.8 v1, "thin" 90/2.8, 90/2.4, 90/2 apo. An inexpensive lens like the M-Rokkor 90/4 stands somewhat above from this viewpoint.

[otto.f]

3 hours ago, lct said:

with and w/o cupping my hand

With or without the built-in hood?

[lct]

Just now, otto.f said:

With or without the built-in hood?

With.

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[otto.f]

2 minutes ago, lct said:

With.

So how would that turn out without that hood but with and without your hand?

Edited January 5, 2021 by otto.f

[lct]

8 minutes ago, otto.f said:

So how would that turn out without that hood but with and without your hand

Hoods alone are generally useless for that kind of flare, as far as my lenses are concerned at least. Even tall ones like those of Macro-Elmar 90/4 or Summarit 90/2.4. Now cupping the hand proves easier and more effective when the hood is on.